Re: Anticipating Forza Motorsport 5

Smus Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:33 pm

Well, to say that I'm dissapointed in the interview would be an understatement to say the least. Like both of you said Stalker and Avanti, it appears that T10 understands the gripes of the hardcore racers and yes has no intention of changing to conform to the demands of those players. While I understand that the hardcore racers like ourselves have large gripes it appears that we are the major minority when it comes to the target market that T10 is aiming for. I suppose the end must have been near when Dan kept using the phrase "Turn car lovers into gamers, and gamers into car lovers". To interject my own personal opinion, it should not be the job of a game like Forza Motorsport to convert the wayward gamers that choose to not partake in the fountian of sim-esque racing titles and bring them into the fold. I guess this is what happens when a Microsoft Studios based game and launch title is controlled by the mothership. It's not allowed (and based off of the interview wouldn't have taken) the freedom to become what it should have been, and instead has been created to make people who would otherwise pass on the title almost compulsary players based on that fact alone, along with the constant inclusion of the FM titles in the latter date bundles.

As was said already, it appears that FM5 will limp along when it comes to true simulation, or at least as close as can be had, and instead give the tweeners and hopper racers shiny new toys to keep them occupied. I'll purchase this generation, but I'm with Avanti, this really could be the final endeavor for me into the Forza Motorsports stable if this is to be continued. I was under the assumption (as were all of us and I think many of the racing faithful) that Forza: Horizon would be the endall when it came to keeping the drifters and public lobby alpha car folks happy and that Forza 5 could be what Forza 1-2 started. The interview was actually very telling as to the mentality of Dan and therefore the entire T10 staff's direction in which way FM will continue. I guess it will most likely turn into cross between a Need for Speed title, Project Gotham Racing and Gran Turismo.

I have really enjoyed every iteration of the Forza series, but I can't help but wonder what Forza 6 will contain if they don't take the issues brought up by their most faithful consumers to heart. Sooner or later the other players, the drifters and the like will put the title down and pick up another game and I'd like to think they would have some personal pride to see to it that players keep choosing FM over other games, to keep coming back and playing a title over and over again simply for the fact that it's enjoyable. I think it would be rather foolish to think that the higher ups at both Turn10 and Microsoft Studios could really be concerned whether or not the core gamers that continue to play, continue to buy DLC, and continue to pre-order all of the titles they produce will be there the next time around. It will only last so long until the fairweather fans leave or get bored, and they will, and T10 find that the core they've grown has become rotten and diseased...it's starting to get that way for me at this moment and unless FM5 is just that good I'm really going to have to take a close look at FM6 to see if I'd even consider buying it, much less pre-order.

Smus Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:37 pm

Avanti, can you check your ForzaMotorsport.net forum link? either it's been taken down (which wouldn't suprise me, can't let the natives get too restless) or it may be a bad link...I'd love to see reaction.

Edit: NVM...looks as though it was deleted...reason by moderator for removing thread...

The "interview" was a "quote" from somewhere, unsubstantiated, and in violation of the Terms of Service on these forums:
"Copyrighted Material: The posting of full transcriptions of articles and whole or partially-scanned images is not allowed. Users in breach of this rule are subject to banning, although a verbal warning may be administered for a first offense. The posting of review scores (without text), news summaries, rumors, and review paraphrasing is acceptable, as long as credit is given to the original source."

**Avanti 63r1025** Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:56 pm

Quote in Smus' post originated from Snowowl. Yep, the forzamotorsport.net thread was deleted. Ha! Definitely must squelch that news before the hardcore race fans read it … Too late. Dang, I should have rolled SnagIt over that page while it was up.

It strikes me as odd that Turn 10 Studios partnered with the American Le Mans Series. Why did they? If Turn 10's vision isn't racing centric, why partner with a sanctioning body devoted to racing? If their primary focus is on cars in their beauty, Turn 10 should have partnered with Turtle Wax, Armor All, or the Good Guys car show.

Open iTunes and search for The Smoking Tire. Today they posted a podcast of an interview with Dan G. discussing Forza Motorsport 5. It's 1 hr. 46 min. in length so listen when you have an appropriate block of time.

Smus Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:28 pm

Avanti 63r1025 wrote:Quote in Smus' post originated from Snowowl. Yep, the forzamotorsport.net thread was deleted. Ha! Definitely must squelch that news before the hardcore race fans read it … Too late. Dang, I should have rolled SnagIt over that page while it was up.

It strikes me as odd that Turn 10 Studios partnered with the American Le Mans Series. Why did they? If Turn 10's vision isn't racing centric, why partner with a sanctioning body devoted to racing? If their primary focus is on cars in their beauty, Turn 10 should have partnered with Turtle Wax, Armor All, or the Good Guys car show.

Open iTunes and search for The Smoking Tire. Today they posted a podcast of an interview with Dan G. discussing Forza Motorsport 5. It's 1 hr. 46 min. in length so listen when you have an appropriate block of time.

To give the benfit of the doubt to T10 and Dan...I did a quick search and found no actual article, just a few forums that had it posted on, so it is quite possible that it was either made up or not yet published, so who really knows.

I agree that it does seem odd that they would work with ALMS if their idea wasn't to build, if not a hardcore sim racing game, at least one that can hold a candle to the GT series. If they didn't they would be like every other arcady sim-esque racer game that was out there that failed so maybe it's not all its cracked up to be.

On the big board under the Forza 5 tab, there is a nice sticky at the top titled "Everything we know so far" and there were members that listened to the full interview and posted the "important stuff".

From here , after a series of pictures this was posted...

When they weren’t playing the demo, fans could head into the “Forza Motorsport theater” for a live demonstration of Forza Motorsport 5, hosted by Turn 10’s content director John Wendl. This twenty-minute demonstration took fans through a tour of all the fantastic features of Forza Motorsport 5 – including an in-depth look at Forzavista mode (which is included for each and every of the hundreds of cars featured in the game), the new graphics engine in Forza 5, and a description of how the team is using physically-based materials on each and every surface in the game, giving the cars and the world a more realistic look than ever before. Fans also saw a glimpse at the new career mode in Forza 5, which will include 50 race series split among eight separate leagues – more than 60 hours of gameplay just in career mode alone. We also went deep into the brand new Drivatar system – explaining how we built this new cloud-powered system from the ground up into a feature that is always learning about your preferences and driving tendencies and is always racing, even when you’re away from your Xbox One.

Another bit from the forum had this image

Anticipating Forza Motorsport 5 - Page 2 Ku-xlarge

**Avanti 63r1025** Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:32 am

Smus wrote:
To give the benfit of the doubt to T10 and Dan...I did a quick search and found no actual article, just a few forums that had it posted on, so it is quite possible that it was either made up or not yet published, so who really knows.

I've been thinking about this, and what if this was an interview specifically for a forum? If that's the case, that would explain why other articles wouldn't pick up on it and it could explain the dialogue during the first two complete exchanges.

**TuxTshirt** Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:47 am

If that interview is indeed authentic, then I think it's quite clear that Turn 10 is letting their success grow their ego too much. He basically states that they're aware of the gripes of hard-core racers, but that didn't make them successful and we'll just deal with a sub-par simulation facet of their "game." I'm not sure if you guys remember Forza 1 but I do. On the main loading page they gave the definition of "simulation." Seems to me that matters no longer. Just another reason I no longer use Forza as my racing simulation program. You guys are the only reason I go on there anymore. And my last attempt at racing with you guys should speak volumes as to it's shortcomings. It was, no doubt, fun while it lasted.

Anticipating Forza Motorsport 5 - Page 2 9y2q

Anticipating Forza Motorsport 5 - Page 2 9y2q

**Simcik** Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:31 pm

I looked it up a while back. Seems this interview is legit from what I can tell.

As far as I can surmise, it was AAR Don (over at IFCA) that did the interview...

**StalkerStang** Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:53 pm

Tux, I feel really bad about that. We all wanted you to race with us....

I hope that the server issues will be resolved by then, the size of the Xbox live network is supposed to be huge with One, I hope it doesn't have problems like FM4 does.

**Simcik** Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:17 pm

I hate to say it, but the more I look at it, the more a gaming PC looks like a better deal.

I don't need all the B.S. M$ is putting into the new XB1, so for me it's just a very expensive console. (I don't have Netflix, I surf the net on my laptop, etc.) And FM5 has some very big questions that are still unanswered.

Will it be more of a sim?

Will the server issues be fixed?

Will wheels for the 360 work with the XB1?

Worst case scenario, we get a slightly improved FM4 experience and have to buy a $500 console to play your $60+ game, and in my case a new wheel for probably no less than $200. It wouldn't be hard to sink $800 into the whole deal.

I can buy/build a nice PC rig for that (with a wheel/pedals/seat).

-----

I have read several threads about this exact dilema on other forums (Mainly IFCA), and am wondering if we should still host at least one FM4 series, even after the launch of FM5. We're content with FM4 now, and I know that racers like Tux will not be making the jump. It'd be nice to be able to keep the same group together for certain events. Especially if we're gonna get into a multi-night, multi-series set up. It wouldn't be that hard to let one of those series be FM4...

**StalkerStang** Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:49 pm

I understand the financial aspect of not getting the the new One or FM5 for that matter.... But, to say its not going to be a better game is not accurate. It may not be everything we want it to be, but it will be better. I will go to FM5, not doubts about it. I will also be getting the Xbox One; I do play other games, and thats where the industry is going is to newer systems.

I sure as hell didn't keep playing the SNES when the N64 came out, didn't stay PS1 when the PS2 launched, made the jump from Xbox to 360, why the hell would I not change to the One?

I'll keep FM4 around if there is enough people still playing it, but I think FM5 is where I'll spend more of my time, no sense staying stuck in the past.

**Simcik** Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:07 pm

I went from N64 to PC to 360, so it's been alittle different.

I don't play that many games, etiher. I'm not the ideal XBox customer I guess. I want FM5, but I want good racing. If we find out more as time goes on that it won't be that much different, I may not buy it. I'm still open at this point. I pre-ordered FM4. I doubt I pre-order FM5... (Or XB1 for that matter.)

Shatterpoints Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:18 pm

Simcik wrote:I hate to say it, but the more I look at it, the more a gaming PC looks like a better deal.

I don't need all the B.S. M$ is putting into the new XB1, so for me it's just a very expensive console. (I don't have Netflix, I surf the net on my laptop, etc.) And FM5 has some very big questions that are still unanswered.

Will it be more of a sim?
Forza has stayed a sim and improved with every incarnation, except for horizons. Like I said before horizons was a test bed.

Will the server issues be fixed?
Yes it is no longer a P2P host/client connection. Forza will have dedicated servers like battlefiled

Will wheels for the 360 work with the XB1?
Assume that no periphrials from the older system will work on the new one. Thats just how things usually trend.

Worst case scenario, we get a slightly improved FM4 experience and have to buy a $500 console to play your $60+ game, and in my case a new wheel for probably no less than $200. It wouldn't be hard to sink $800 into the whole deal.

I can buy/build a nice PC rig for that (with a wheel/pedals/seat).

Realistically you are going to spend ~800 on a good PC setup BEFORE you get wheels and pedals
rough example is I designed my PC for BF3 and my graphics card is already "old" and I only have one, I am not running SLI by choice.

MOBO= $120
AMD 965BE= $120
8GB ocz RAM= $100
CM full tower case= $90
Thermaltake CPU cooler= $60
EVGA GTX 560TI= $280
+
------------------------------
Total=770
--------------------------------------
That does not include a monitor and thats a single gfx card setup. So the choice boils down to more of do you want to play on the console with a majority of the people you know? or start over and try to find a new group of people to play with on the PC?

I have read several threads about this exact dilema on other forums (Mainly IFCA), and am wondering if we should still host at least one FM4 series, even after the launch of FM5. We're content with FM4 now, and I know that racers like Tux will not be making the jump. It'd be nice to be able to keep the same group together for certain events. Especially if we're gonna get into a multi-night, multi-series set up. It wouldn't be that hard to let one of those series be FM4...

Smus Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:39 pm

I think the cloud based multiplayer will be extremely helpful.

**Avanti 63r1025** Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:14 pm

I remember that splash screen, it showed sim•u•la•tion and then a definition of it. I agree with the sentiment that Turn 10 Studios has stepped away from their vision of the earlier Motorsport titles.

The Xbox One reportedly has eight times the power of the Xbox 360 so Forza Motorsport will improve. What we can't count on seeing are further enhancements of drag racing, pit strategy, black flags with stop and go (and stop and hold) penalties, computer controlled rolling starts and caution periods, how cars are built and tuned, and other hardcore racing features. Any of these features will be a fabulous bonus.

Forza Horizon wasn’t a test bed. Forza Horizon was a way to further extend the Forza name and broaden the customer base, with more customers comes more money. More money could be more research and development, though at one end of the scale could also just simply be greed. With another title on the shelf maybe a person shopping at a game store looking at Horizon looks at Motorsport and buys it too? Horizon was a big time marketing gig coupled with an appeal to the arcade racer crowd.

I agree with Smus, it shouldn’t be a game developer’s responsibility to turn someone into a gear head. If a game does this, the best it can be is filled with entry level programming … a description we can apply to Forza Motorsport. That interview mentioned Motorsport being simulation lite, and it’s right.

I have a hunch that Forza Motorsport’s target audience is for those who aren’t “all in” in the automotive world. These people wouldn’t want, nor would they appreciate hardcore simulation features. That doesn’t make sense though. Turn 10 Studios partnered with the American Le Mans Series, Gunnar Jeanette tests their coded tracks for accuracy, and they’ve recently gotten feedback from racers driving their tracks in preparation for a new venue. I feel compelled to ask, “What the Hell, Turn 10? Where’s your head?”

I will get Forza Motorsport 5 and thus I will get an Xbox One. Why? The Xbox One is the next generation of systems with more resources for developers to use. Where Motorsport 5 might be my final endeavor with Turn 10 Studios, we may see a hardcore racing simulator released for the Xbox One. If that happens I’ll be ready.

**Simcik** Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:33 pm

Haha - Shatter, I don't need the best of everything to play iRacing. Good quality, used gaming PCs go for $300 all the time around here... Pedals are about $200. Plus a seat and stuff to build it.

I have a monitor already.

Like I said, I'm not decided. I want to know more about Forza 5 first. It seems that they are just polishing what they had, rather than actually doing some nuts and bolts improvements. I hope that's not the case...

**TuxTshirt** Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:11 am

What I spent on my gaming PC:

WD 500GB HDD:$70
Corsair Enthusiast 650W PS: $78
Gigabyte MoBo: $109
AMD Phenom II Quad-core CPU: $90
G.Skill 8GB RAM: $34
Saphire Radeon HD 6950 2GB video card: $180
LG disk drive: $17
Keyboard and mouse: $26
Antec mid-tower case: $70
Windows 7 64-bit OS: $80
Logitech speakers: $25
Acer 23" monitor: $140 (other two monitors I got as gifts along with necessary cable to run triple screen)

That's $919. Keep in mind, I built it from scratch. I bought everything from Newegg.com. I got most stuff on sale, and you can actually save some money when they run bundled specials. I actually got my first RAM for free in a bundle but one was faulty. So I just bought better RAM on sale. If you already have some hardware, an OS, and peripherals, you can come in way under what I spent.

My issue with Turn 10 after having read that interview is this: They clearly have the horsepower to greatly improve the product, know of many simulation fans' complaints and ignore others, and still choose to leave it mostly unimproved. Sure, the sim-racing crowd may not be the majority, but I'd be willing to bet they're the most loyal. Hardcore racers, such as many of us, stick around for years and continue to buy DLC and run series, forums, and produce media that continues to advertise for them. Having said that, you mean to tell me that this crowd is not worth the extra effort and production dollars? Let's face it, simulation racing software is as good as it is right now because of the hardcore sim-racing fans. Instead, Dan just shrugs off these "minor details and concerns from our niche brothers and sisters on the racing side of Forza life." That's a joke to me. He may as well have said "piss off, you're not a large enough segment to devote our time to." These are MAJOR details to hardcore sim racers. Like me, a past customer. iRacing gets my money now because they not only provide the racing experience I want, they also provide a consistent product that doesn't drop users and fail to bring lobbies together. Sure, iRacing falls short on "car culture," however iRacing calls itself a "Simulation" and delivers in spades. I will certainly be listening to the talk in regards to Forza 5 though, it does look visually amazing. But, having heard how the racing will be, I'm not willing to spend the money on something that won't deliver what I look for in sim-racing. But hey, I'm just a minority user part of a silly niche crowd.

**Simcik** Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:53 am

Very well said Tux. I basically agree with all that.

Maybe we'll get some new info on FM5 that quells some of our concerns. I hope we do! I like the game!

That being said, if the issues we have now go unaddressed, I do not see the expense of the XB1 being worth some fancy graphics. (I'm happy with FM4, really.) I'd rather spend my money on a PC than XB1 and get more sim features.

I really hope that T10 is listening. And I really hope they care enough to do something about what the "hardcore" guys are saying...

Smus Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:04 am

Again...I put little faith in an interview not published, saved for a few forums...have a legitimate gaming site post it and then let's talk, otherwise IMO its here say

Shatterpoints Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:53 pm

Simcik wrote:Haha - Shatter, I don't need the best of everything to play iRacing. Good quality, used gaming PCs go for $300 all the time around here... Pedals are about $200. Plus a seat and stuff to build it.

I have a monitor already.

Like I said, I'm not decided. I want to know more about Forza 5 first. It seems that they are just polishing what they had, rather than actually doing some nuts and bolts improvements. I hope that's not the case...

LOL yea right 300 will play iracing. Tux just proved my point. I left alot out of my costs list because I'm assuming you can salvage things like I did.

300 will get you motherboard, CPU, and a mouse/ keyboard. You still need a decent gfx card and enough ram so you don't bottle neck your performance. Also you would want to spend closer to 1k total anyway. At that price point you will have a system that can be upgraded for a while instead of buying equipment that wont be upgradable but for a generation or two more.

A further breakdown.

You have a monitor- good
cpu ~$100
Motherboard - ~$100
4gb ram if x86 - $60
8GB+ ram if x64 - $100+
HDD - you should have one already
DVD/CD rw- you should have one already
Power supply - $100 DO NOT use a cheapo $50 one if you are going to get a half way decent gfx card. They are un reliable and cannot provide the amount of power necessary. Also make sure its a single 12v rail PSU and not a dual 12v rail.
Gfx card- 150+ get one with atleast 1GB ddr3 ram and you should be ok. Physics is GPU/CPU intensive as it is alot of integer math simulation and you want to get as good a pair as you reasonably can.
Computer case- $40+ invest in a good case for enough room and good air circulation.
you will definitly want an aftermarket cpu cooler, if you decide air cooling its cheap but loud and has limits. If you go water cooling its expensive but does the job very well.

Assuming the least amount of money spent possible, reasonably anyway. We have a total of

CPU-100
mobo-100
4gb ram-60
psu-100
gfx-150
cpu cooler/ decent fan - 40
------
$550

Thats again bare min scratching the bottom of the barrel.

My original build example of my PC is not much more, and Tux's not much more past that. I know you will wait to make your decision but if you were prepared to spend the money on an XBONE than you should consider atleast spending as much on a pc.

Now to address avanti-

Forza horizons was done by an outside studio and does cater to a different group of people. That doesn't mean it was done just for greed and money, from a business standpoint saying a product was made for financial gain is kind of a duh. My point was in horizons we saw night driving again, working headlights again, a completely new shader/ lighting system, completely new game engine (same physics). Guess what we are going to see in FM5 so far? New lighting /shaders and a new game engine. I'm willing to bet once T10 buckles down they will deliver night driving and weather affects. After all Greenwalt went out of his way to explain the new ways they were getting empirical data for the tyres and how to sim them. That means once the initial launch is behind them they can begin to cater to the other wants/needs we are vocalizing. I think those options will be DLC just like the track packs we got in past forza's. Also the proposed lack of power from the old system doesn't mean squat about tyre options, black flags etc. We had tire options in FM1 and in F1 2011/2012 series there are tire options and all the kinds of penalties associated with racing F1. On the xbox 360 with its limited capabilities. So its fine in my opinion to assume that the new xbox isn't any more special/capable that the 360 in regards to those small features that are not resource intensive and easy to implement.

**Avanti 63r1025** Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:45 pm

Tux, preach on man! There are alternatives and these alternatives please those who are looking for hardcore race features. It's up to the hardcore sim-race fans to vote with their dollars.

You mention Forza being more into "car culture" than other offerings. Imagine if Turn 10 could offer much of what hardcore sim-racing software offers, while keeping Forza's awesome vehicle lineup. That product would kick much ass!

Simcik wrote:… I really hope that T10 is listening. And I really hope they care enough to do something about what the "hardcore" guys are saying...

Hahahaha! They are listening and are shrugging it off. ZING!

Smus wrote:Again...I put little faith in an interview not published, saved for a few forums...have a legitimate gaming site post it and then let's talk, otherwise IMO its here say

I hope it is heresay but I'm believing it until it's proven false. Dan is the creative director at Turn 10 and he should be interested in pleasing every one of his customers, especially the most faithful fans Tux mentions.

Again, what if this interview was from a forum member? In that case it would be spoken truth and wouldn't be picked up by a legitimate gaming site. Slot me in place of that interviewer. I would also ask those tough questions and offer constructive criticism and I too wouldn't get published to a legitimate site. All I could do is post my results here and to a few other appropriate forums where I'm a member. I am curious of their recording method.

So now it's posted and whereas it could be true, there's a populous not taking it seriously. Our only choice is to wait and see. Does Turn 10 see customer dissatisfaction and change course? Or do they continue to tell us hardcore fans to piss off and upset us, driving away our dollars?

Provided the interview is true, allow me to revisit the split of Motorsport and Horizon. I feel Turn 10 needs another split. What we have today is not Motorsport and Horizon. We have Forza Sandbox and Forza Horizon. We need Turn 10 Studios to continue to develop what they're doing here and rename it Forza Sandbox. Then they need to shift the Forza Motorsport name to the high-end hardcore racer.

**Avanti 63r1025** Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:40 pm

Shatterpoints wrote:Forza horizons was done by an outside studio and does cater to a different group of people. That doesn't mean it was done just for greed and money, from a business standpoint saying a product was made for financial gain is kind of a duh.

I didn't say they did it for greed, I said greed is at one end of the 'desiring more money' scale.
It is kind of a duh, though not every game developer reaches out to potentially gather customers from a broader base as Turn 10 Studios did in reaching out to Playground Games.

Shatterpoints wrote:My point was in horizons we saw night driving again, working headlights again, a completely new shader/ lighting system, completely new game engine (same physics). Guess what we are going to see in FM5 so far? New lighting /shaders and a new game engine. I'm willing to bet once T10 buckles down they will deliver night driving and weather affects.

I hope Turn 10 does implement night driving and weather effects. Listening to Dan's E3 interviews this year, those are both on the "to come later" board. He said they simply ran out of time to implement a day/night cycle.

Shatterpoints wrote:After all Greenwalt went out of his way to explain the new ways they were getting empirical data for the tyres and how to sim them. That means once the initial launch is behind them they can begin to cater to the other wants/needs we are vocalizing. I think those options will be DLC just like the track packs we got in past forza's.

I hope you're right about adding features in DLC.

Shatterpoints wrote:Also the proposed lack of power from the old system doesn't mean squat about tyre options, black flags etc. We had tire options in FM1 and in F1 2011/2012 series there are tire options and all the kinds of penalties associated with racing F1. On the xbox 360 with its limited capabilities. So its fine in my opinion to assume that the new xbox isn't any more special/capable that the 360 in regards to those small features that are not resource intensive and easy to implement.

It's true we had other tire options in earlier Forza games (I enjoyed the system in place in Forza Motorsport 2) and in other games for the same platform. I suspect you're not looking at each game as a whole product. One must also look at features left on the cutting room floor because there wasn't enough space on the compact disc, enough processing power, enough desire (or one of many other reasons) to implement those features AND every feature that made it.

F1 2011 and 2012 don't have Autovista. Those 26 cars in Autovista were separate models from the models used in driving, that's more room eaten on the compact disc. F1 games don't have 116 different aftermarket wheels to equip, that's more room eaten on the compact disc. There's only so much total space and total processing power to be used and they're fixed numbers. It's how game developers choose to divvy those fixed numbers that earn those guys (and gals) the big bucks.

The switch to blu-ray discs, more RAM and a more powerful CPU will increase those fixed numbers. Yes, there are many features which could be added, though it's up to the guys in charge and the rig's resources to dictate what makes it into the finished product.

It appears Turn 10 Studios is taking Forza Motorsport in a flashy-snazzy "hey look at the cars" direction, and not in a racing-centric direction. That's what upsets the hardcore sim-racing fans. Features we'd like to see implemented in Forza Motorsport got left on the cutting room floor because the Turn 10 Studios powers that be decided to leave them out, possibly because they favor other features, also possibly because resources weren't available.

**StalkerStang** Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:44 pm

I don't know if greed is the right word to describe whats going on here, but maximizing their profits? Oh hell yes.

I really beleive they are more motivated by increasing their profits than anything. They may have a true passion for cars and they probably take a lot of pride in what they do, but in the end, its to make money.

I'm not trying to put them down for it, as that describes what I do for work as well. I work in healthcare. While I do enjoy it at times, and I like to help people, I'm doing it for a paycheck. I wouldn't be doing this type of work if I didn't have to.

What I'm saying is if Turn 10 sees a larger profit by catering to "new" gamers, and the BS of turning gamers into car people and car people into gamers, damn right thats the way they are going to go. They are also under the umbrella of Microsoft, you think Microsoft is going to let them go all out in a full sim racer if it means a decrease in their profit?

**Simcik** Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:18 pm

You can't make sim-features (Like real pit stops, aero repair, tire wear, fuel consumption, etc.) DLC. If you do, not all people will have them.

You either have to go the EA route and make it where you can't play if you don't have the update (and the update is free), or you can't do it at all. I feel the latter is the case.

Maybe you are right, maybe they will work on it after launch - but that means FM6. So, 2.5 years out...

I wish they would spend less time trying to make the game look SOOO real and instead make it play more real.

**Avanti 63r1025** Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:19 am

Computer gaming companies release patches and Turn 10 has made running changes to Forza's PI system so it isn't impossible to believe they could make changes via the update system. If the change or addition to the game is large it would take those with slow Internet providers a fortnight to download the thing. And that would suck, yo. Again, we run into the "size" thing.

Shatterpoints Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:35 am

Simcik wrote:You can't make sim-features (Like real pit stops, aero repair, tire wear, fuel consumption, etc.) DLC. If you do, not all people will have them.

You either have to go the EA route and make it where you can't play if you don't have the update (and the update is free), or you can't do it at all. I feel the latter is the case.

Maybe you are right, maybe they will work on it after launch - but that means FM6. So, 2.5 years out...

I wish they would spend less time trying to make the game look SOOO real and instead make it play more real.

There is such a thing as free DLC. Also I hope it isn't FM6 that we see the things we all want :/

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