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Suspension Tuning

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Suspension Tuning

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:26 pm

Rather than continue this tuning discussion in our Current Forza shortcomings and new ideas thread, I decided to open a new one.

The additional aerodynamics weight (if aero pieces are fitted) should be compensated in the tuning of spring rates … What if we wanted to do as Cadillac did (only an example as other cars have done it) and have our car get lower at speed? Suppose our aerodynamic pieces add 100 pounds to the front and 200 pounds to the rear and we compensate our spring rates to one-half or one-quarter of those figures. Does this mean our car "hunkers down" once it reaches the speed necessary for the "wings-n-things" to start acting on the car?
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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Sorta05 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:53 pm

The car will hunker down some. No different then if you had a 100 lb person sit up front bumper and a 200 lb person sit on the back of the car.

I haven't heard of the caddy's hunkering down at speed... is that something to do with the magna shocks?
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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  TuxTshirt on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:08 pm

Any time the downforce acts on the vehicle it will hunker down some, at least until you hit the suspensions max travel (which should happen if set up properly). I'm not quite sure of your question Avanti. Are you talking about active suspension?

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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Simcik on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:12 pm

I think the active suspension allows for that. Jeep (and now Ram) does that with their air suspension when at cruising speeds too. But I think it's done more for aerodynamics than anything. I know on the air suspension, they let a little pressure out, allowing the vehicle to compress the bags more. I think GM does the same thing with the magnetically charged shocks...
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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Remaggib on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:27 pm

I do remember seeing a commercial years ago where a car wouldn't fit under a bar, then it got a running start and zoomed under it. Impressive commercial if I can remember it years later. Just not what car lol. Not that this post has anything to add, but I remembered something! If my family didn't all dislike me right now (long story) they'd probably be proud, memory is not my strong... something.
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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Sorta05 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:31 pm

Simcik wrote:I think the active suspension allows for that. Jeep (and now Ram) does that with their air suspension when at cruising speeds too. But I think it's done more for aerodynamics than anything. I know on the air suspension, they let a little pressure out, allowing the vehicle to compress the bags more. I think GM does the same thing with the magnetically charged shocks...

Shocks don't carry any weight load and therefore should not be able to affect ride height. I'm very curious as to what tech would allow this in the caddy. The ZR1 had a really trick setup with those shocks and they adjust the shocks so that when you shift, the shocks hold the weight of the car in place to keep the weight on the rear wheels (on launch anyway).
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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Simcik on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:53 pm

While it is not there primary duty, shocks do carry part of the vehicles weight, especially when turning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagneRide
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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:14 pm

Yeah Rem's on the right track. It was circa '96, before magnetic shocks. The commercial showed a Cadillac pulling slowly up to a limbo bar and the roof line was too high for the car to fit under. Then the commercial shows the Cadillac driving fast as it approaches the limbo bar. At speed the car was able to fit under the bar. This was a commercial so the director could have had the bar moved some distance up for the shot where the Cadillac drove at speed under the bar, though the commercial's purpose was to show that at freeway speeds the car got lower.

I'm not talking about active suspension per se. I suppose I am suggesting a method to make aerodynamic pieces (wings-n-things) perform the functions of active suspensions. Translated: someone sets up a suspension (spring rates, sway bars, & dampers) not accounting for the weight imposed by the aerodynamic pieces, and then alters the settings to accommodate for a fraction of the weight imposed by the aero. pieces to get the car to lower at higher speeds.
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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Josh on ze bass on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:46 pm

Remaggib wrote:I do remember seeing a commercial years ago where a car wouldn't fit under a bar, then it got a running start and zoomed under it. Impressive commercial if I can remember it years later. Just not what car lol. Not that this post has anything to add, but I remembered something! If my family didn't all dislike me right now (long story) they'd probably be proud, memory is not my strong... something.

lolz. was this it? Razz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiBNtGSzrp4

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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Simcik on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:14 am

Avanti, I've wondered why we haven't seem something like that yet, myself. Why not use canards (the small little wings at the front of many fighter jets) on the nose section to compensate for body roll? Provide lift on the outside, downforce on the inside of a corner. Also, you could have the same thing with a split rear wing. And you could make the wing stand up during braking, and the canards provide lift, keeping weight transfer minimal...

Active suspension and fully active aero would be amazing!!!
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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:50 am

That'd be cool.

Of course, then there's the Bose Suspension:


In the '60s and '70s Bruce McLaren and Mark Donohue tested cars with air brakes. I don't have it, though my friend has a book with a M. Donohue quote. Donohue admits to air brakes scaring the shit out of him. Using canards (dive planes) on cars with variable AoA would be pretty cool.
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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  TuxTshirt on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:41 pm

Most of this technology is out there already. It's called the Bugatti Veyron.

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Re: Suspension Tuning

Post  Smus on Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:44 pm

Williams FW14 had active suspension ...pretty sweet...it was that reason Senna went to Williams, which the year after ugs implementation it was banned by the FIA...Lotus tried something similar this year in preseason testing trying to use the brakes to keep tjr car level under braking and attempting to provide for more equal aerodynamic balance.

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