Re: Real life Trans-Am Series

**TuxTshirt** Thu May 17, 2012 11:35 pm

Sorta, I like your explaination for why you like production-based racing. You own a Corvette, therefore you like watching them race. I totally understand. That's cool. I love watching them too.

To answer your question about the test:
Let's say this is a college test. In the syllabus it is outlined that higher achieving students get harder tests with more questions. The student signs up anyway. Is it fair? I think so. The student knew the rules when they signed up.

I don't think this is a fair comparison though. Thousands of people don't show up to watch students take tests.

To address your reference to the race question:
I think each racing series has it's own purpose and direction. Some series encourage massive amounts of R&D and spending, and when one car is much faster, it's ok because they followed the rules. Other series look for stiff competition with much governing to keep things fair. If you think about it, the series that punishes the winners wants to see a closely packed field full of close racing and passes so it's more exciting to watch. NASCAR keeps the field close without penalizing individuals unless they break the rules. That, to me, seems fair. It all depends what you're looking for. There's something for everyone. And you know what? We, the spectators ALWAYS win!!!

Smus Fri May 18, 2012 12:26 am

TuxTshirt wrote:You can no longer compare NASCAR to production-based cars. Sorta, you say that removing the manufacturer from the production "waters down" the racing. I don't see how that's true. You may not like that Chevy doesn't produce a RWD, V8, tube-frame car, but how does that affect the racing? If anything, having balanced builds makes the racing much closer. You could make the same argument for F1 and LMP cars. How many Red Bull dealerships are there? What production car do they make? The truth is, stockcars are prototypes and have been for some time. That doesn't mean that the manufacturer isn't involved or that the racing is "watered down". At least in my opinion.

The issue I take, and I think what Sorta brings up, is that the National Association of Stock Car Racing is not racing "stock cars". Instead, it should be the National Association of Tube Frame Race Cars Portraying Production Stock Car Series, or NATFRCPPSCS...but that doesn't quite roll of the tongue as easily.

If anything, I find it rather disingenuous that the NASCAR governing body requires Chevrolet, Ford, Dodge, and Toyota to use production car names, stickers to represent headlights and grills, as well as taillights and the like. The difference between a Prototype car (which has headlights), a Formula 1 car (which has a "tail light"), or an IRL car is that these cars are not representing a model produced by a company, they are cars built for a singular purpose and are not used to advertise or fool fans. I can look at a Red Bull Formula 1 car and know I can't buy that from a dealer, but a Chevrolet Impala "stock car" is supposed to "look" like a Chevrolet Impala, yet shares no components with said car. To race a "Stock Car" would lead me to think that the car is stock...its available for purchase from my local dealer.

**Avanti 63r1025** Sat May 19, 2012 10:42 pm

The race tomorrow is from 4:15pm to 5:30pm EDT (41 laps) and GoRacingTV.com is airing it. I have a conundrum, I don't know how to receive the feed from their website. I'm trying to figure it out before race time tomorrow. Who has watched a live event from GoRacingTV.com and knows how it works?

Nevermind, it's not streamed live. GoRacingTV will post segments of the races on YouTube and if you get MavTV in your area all you'll see is a race recap one week later. #SonOfABitch

Update 5/25/12: Race two is tomorrow at Lime Rock Park outside of Lakeville, CT. Again, no streaming.

**Avanti 63r1025** Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:07 pm

This post goes back in Trans-Am time and reverts us to earlier discussions in this thread. I did some research at this site- http://www.historictransam.com and read the word destroked a lot. Pontiac teams destroked a 400 to 305. AMC teams destroked a 360 to 304. Chrysler teams destroked a 340 to 303.8.

Animated .gif of DynoSim5 screen captures:
Real life Trans-Am Series - Page 2 34618nr

Real life Trans-Am Series - Page 2 34618nr

Mercury teams usually are equipped with a Ford 302 though one Cougar is listed with a Ford HiPo 289, that's why it's included.
Since I only read about destroked stock blocks I didn't alter the bore, I determined how much stroke would be required to meet the stated cubic inches.
As Squid and I were contemplating earlier, were there privateer [Chrysler example] teams who started with a 318 and destroked it to meet the 305 cubic inch max? It's possible.
Looking at all of these it seems everyone was in the "larger bore shorter stroke" line of thinking.

**Simcik** Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:24 pm

Possible, but not likely...

The 318 has the smallest bore of any Mopar V8.

For a more ideal ratio for high rpm racing, you'd want a larger bore than stroke. More HP, more revs, less low end torque. The main reason is the lower rotating mass... Ever wonder why you can get some much damn HP outta a small block???

**StalkerStang** Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:12 am

Avanti 63r1025 wrote:Since I only read about destroked stock blocks I didn't alter the bore, I determined how much stroke would be required to meet the stated cubic inches.

I would imagine this is not entirely accurate. I understand you are working with what knowledge is available to you, so I'm not trying to be a dick lol...

But my thinking is that the strokes that you have listed are not accurate, mainly because I think most of those engines had bore changes. Not to increase cubes, but to increase headflow. Anytime you unshroud the valves (and those T/A heads have some huge valves), you increase headflow and gain power.

Case in point is the increasingly popular 363 SBF. You can take a 9.5 deck SBF (351W) and easily attain those cubes or more with small increase in stroke. However, if you use a 8.2 deck (302) SBF, put a 3.40 stroke crank in it and then increase it to a 4.125 bore, you get a 363, in a tiny 8.2 deck package. So you have the benefit of more cubes for more torque, a small(ish) stroke crank for more RPM and revving capability, and then the huge bore to increase headflow.

With the right parts, 8.2 deck 363's make a ton of power, and more than a 363 cube 9.5 deck motor.

**Avanti 63r1025** Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:53 am

I don't doubt their blocks could have been altered, possibly even sleeved? The listed strokes aren't stone-etched truth, they're only the matching stroke to meet the displacements I found.

What I'll do next is find bore & stroke lengths that A) align evenly with [… 32nds, 16ths, 8ths, …] of inches and B) total the volume of the found displacements.

**StalkerStang** Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:09 am

I can't say for the other manufacturers, but for Ford, the Boss 302 block is the only factory 4 bolt main SBF you can get. Its got a lot more meat on it than other SBF's so I'm sure they can punch it out a bit.

**Avanti 63r1025** Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:40 pm

Simcik wrote:For a more ideal ratio for high rpm racing, you'd want a larger bore than stroke. More HP, more revs, less low end torque. The main reason is the lower rotating mass... Ever wonder why you can get some much damn HP outta a small block???

Engines are air pumps. One either makes big power because it sucks larger quantities of air at a slow rate (big block) or because it sucks smaller quantities of air at a fast rate (small block). Valves, ports, smoothness, and more dictate how and where this air pump makes power. It is possible to suck larger quantities of air at a fast rate (high RPM big block) though this combo needs to be well-built and that costs extra.

In one of Granatelli's 299 CID creations, Andy kept the factory Studebaker bore at 3.5625" though he gave it a 3.75" stroke and cranked it out to 8,000 RPM regularly. This engine makes more horsepower than torque as it's relatively small displacement and is aided with a Paxton supercharger. This example however is one that's full of factory support. In the phone conversation between Andy and my dad when Andy told him the car was cranked out to 8 grand regularly, Andy said, "I wouldn't do that with the car today because those valve springs are about 50 years old. Also, at the time if I blew it up I had Paxton and Studebaker support to rebuild it."

Studebaker only had one block size, and their block fit Cadillac big block intake manifolds by modestly stretching some mounting bolt holes. Compared with V8 blocks other companies would use for 4.9L worth of displacement, theirs has a lot of available volume. Taking this in a percentage context, it's small. This is one out of many engines in the world where someone decided to increase the stroke relative to the bore and spin it to 8,000 RPM.

**Simcik** Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:59 pm

http://performancetrends.com/blog/?p=5

That sums it up pretty nice...

**Avanti 63r1025** Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:47 pm

That makes sense. I guess that's why many companies use cylinder heads with 3, 4, and 5 valves per cylinder.

In a desktop dyno file, I found increasing the intake valve sizes from stock 1.875" to 2.02" made more of a difference than increasing supercharger pressure from 10 to 12. There must already be enough volume of air for more power but the valves just aren't large enough to allow all available air to come through.

**Avanti 63r1025** Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:10 pm

Trans Am Puts The Pony Back In The Paddock For 2013

For 2013 in Trans-Am's TA2 class, it'll be Mustang vs. Camaro once again. T/A is in talks to bring the Challenger into the mix for 2014. We could see 'Posey', 'Donohue' and 'Gurney' battles once again.

The next Motorsport edition needs official T/A pony cars; they're not far from having the '60s and '70s versions already. I'd like to see the '80 and '90s versions, and now these. We can skip the early 2000's because T/A didn't race pony cars in a dedicated class.

**TuxTshirt** Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:56 pm

Heck yeah!! Now all we need is for someone to televise all of the races.

**Avanti 63r1025** Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:10 am

Amen to that brother! Maybe with the steps they're taking more people will become interested and they'll get a TV contract? One can only hope.

**TuxTshirt** Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:40 am

I'm hoping Comcast will add Speed2.com soon. I'm waiting on them. I would imagine Speed2 will cover alot.

**Ex US Squid** Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:02 am

TuxTshirt wrote:I'm hoping Comcast will add Speed2.com soon. I'm waiting on them. I would imagine Speed2 will cover alot.

THIS!!!!

**Avanti 63r1025** Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:35 pm

In the 2015 Mustang Leaked thread I mentioned my interest for Dodge's Challenger plans. Why? Well The Trans-Am Series is opening their TA2 & TA3 classes to include the Challenger starting next season, "The TA2 class is another homage to the power of American muscle, featuring the ongoing battle between the Ford Mustang and Chevrolet Camaro, with the Dodge Challenger slated to join the mix."

The three cars are included in a TA3 sub-class called American Muscle, though this class generally follows the American Iron rule set a la NASA whereas TA2 cars are of a tube frame design.

More at Trans-Am Series' about page.

**Avanti 63r1025** Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:16 pm

Hey Squid! Archer Racing will be seen in Trans-Am again.

**StalkerStang** Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:15 pm

http://www.howeracing.com/Adobe/HoweTA20811.pdf

Not that I have 80K to burn, but thats actually not too bad a price considering what you get. Optional parts, and it says the Challenger body will be available April this year.

Real life Trans-Am Series - Page 2 THAW_%20173301

Real life Trans-Am Series - Page 2 THAW_%20173301

**Simcik** Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:17 am

Backstretch at Road Atlanta?

**Ex US Squid** Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:20 am

Simcik wrote:Backstretch at Road Atlanta?

Nope its actually just outside Bagram, Afghanistan.

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