Real life Trans-Am Series

Since we're a group o' race lovin' fanatics I figured I'd post some nested links for all to check out.

Wikipedia's link to Trans-Am history
The new homepage of Trans-Am
GoRacingTV.com Inc. and MAVTV are to air Trans-Am races online and to your television*
GoRacingTV.com homepage

Lately T/A sat out three years. My take is the series' butt has been whooped for the last twelve years. Their (in my eyes) rejuvenation season starts next Sunday at the track formerly known as Mosport. It's now named Canadian Tire Motorsport Park, or if you will, the track Ron Fellows built.

*Dependent upon location and cable/satellite provider.

Having a small company for cable means I get great service, but don't have cool options like this...that GoRacingTV.com website is awesome though. Squid and I were talking about it last night...they've got some pretty neat stuff on there.

I was excited about this when I first read your post saying it's back and will be broadcast online. Then I read all the cars are tubular custom built race cars... boring. TA racing was popular back in the 60's because you could buy the cars they were racing. Same with nascar. Why can't they have folks run factory camaro's and mustangs with roll cages? It's not like Ford, and Chevy make track versions of these cars already...

While i would agree with you in theory, if you go on the same website, they show Trans Am from the early 90's, and it had changed then already to tube frame cars...

That's why I love Continental Tire Series racing...the Grand Sport class and Street Tuner class cars are dang near bone stock. I remember the 2010 or 2011 Continental Tire race at Daytona, one of the MazdaSpeed3's had to pull into the pits because the factory ECU went into limp mode...that's how close to stock they run.

Is that the same series that runs with the Daytona prototypes sometimes? If it is I LOVE that series!!! I don't have speed though so I never get to see it

The Continental series is a step down from the Rolex series that my race series is based on. We are running the GT class of the Rolex series. The DP cars run with the cars we race. The Continental series is multi-class, the classes are GT and ST.

Yeah I was thinking there was more then 2 classes but I don't follow it very closely since I never get to see it. It used to come on one of the network stations a few years ago.

I couldn't function properly without speed channel...

Yea going sans SPEED network is like a drug addict going sans SPEED.... The withdrawals are killin me and when there is a badass race on say like the NASCAR Allstar race this weekend it tends to be all I can think about and makes me want to break into Grandmas house and steal the money for a month of SPEED channel haha. Im actually about to buy the package that has Speed channel.... Sucks cause its 3 Spanish Sports channels, 4 Soccer channels and Speed lumped in a extra Sports package. But I cant see myself missing the All Star race and 24 Lemans 3 years in a row.... not gonna happen.

Speed vision used to be awesome. They used to show WRC and all kinds of cool grass roots stuff. Sorry but I can't get excited about nascar channel... I mean speed channel.

Sorta05 wrote:… Then I read all the cars are tubular custom built race cars... boring. TA racing was popular back in the 60's because you could buy the cars they were racing. Same with nascar. Why can't they have folks run factory camaro's and mustangs with roll cages? It's not like Ford, and Chevy make track versions of these cars already...

Sorta, I agree with you about racing tube frame chassis. What about the car is factory when so many factory parts have been replaced or outright negated? You also bring up NASCAR which is a similar argument. What pieces are really made by Dodge, Ford, Chevrolet, or Toyota? At this rate Ultima or Ariel could come race NASCAR in their limited production cars (GTR & Atom respectively), as what's on the track really isn't in the showroom. A rear-wheel drive 5.8L Camry or Impala? I don't think so. NASCAR today may as well be overweight ALMS prototypes featuring > 90% of their events in a left turn. NASCAR drivers also have swollen left feet because their blood pools down the left side of their body. All in jest.

Related: One friend of mine was a little peeved at the C5-R program because the Corvette Racing team was racing a 7L Corvette against the 7L Saleen S7R. His argument was Chevrolet didn't homologate a street version with a 7L engine, Saleen did. I really couldn't argue with that as he did have a point. Finally when C6 ZO6 debuted, Chevrolet truly homologated a 7L engine. As far as C5-R went, I believe Chevrolet pointed to their LSX program, essentially saying, "We sell custom sized blocks and cranks. Corvette owners can order any engine size they desire (including 7.0L)." ALMS ruling must have been okay with that explanation.

I know why sanctioning bodies rule in favor of tube frame cars and I understand their conundrum. Tube frame rules are for parts availability and parity across the board. Tube frame chassis parts are plentiful and crossover between "brands." Also, one basic tube frame design means every car can make the same weight and the silhouette is similar for each dag-gone car. Tube frame cars can also be made more safe from the onset. Simply reinforcing a factory car isn't the same as designing a tube frame car with safety and performance in mind. To really get the Trans-Am feel today as Trans-Am was back in the day, turn to Camaro-Mustang Challenge by NASA. It's close though not identical and it's a regional series so there are no professional drivers, it's also not nationally televised.

I'd love to hear the new Trans-Am steward say something to this effect in the near future, "Ford sells 5L versions of the Mustang. FoMoCo should also revive Mercury and build a 5L Cougar. Chevrolet, you must create a factory 5L Camaro. G.M., revive Pontiac and build a 5L Firebird. Dodge, you must homologate a 5L version of the Challenger. Chrysler, you may revive the Eagle and Plymouth brands to produce a 5L Javelin and 5L 'Cuda. In race trim there will be strict limits of 450 maximum horsepower and 2800 pounds minimum weight every race finish. The only legitimate layout is to be front engine with rear-wheel drive. You have one year before the series starts. Get on it!"

Sorta05 wrote:Speed vision used to be awesome. They used to show WRC and all kinds of cool grass roots stuff. Sorry but I can't get excited about nascar channel... I mean speed channel.

Back when it was Speedvision and not this Speed Channel stuff? Hell yes! I loved their programming and I went into it in this thread. I'll take what they show of the 24 hours of Le Mans though because some is better than none. Actually if Speed didn't air it, I'd find a way to stream it to my computer.

Yea but Sorta you come across as a guy who is a "purist" for the old-school and seem less impressed by the modern stuff. I, like Tux freakin love Nascar so I dont mind that they show that on Speed alot. They also still have a ton of coverage of events you never see anywhere else which is awesome. And Speed has to make money to stay on the air so a few more Nascar shows means more free flowing revenue to put towards small time shows like Continental series coverage that probably doesnt make Speed a dime to air it but is a must have. I feel there is still a ton of awesome racing on TV and with so many networks and channels wanting their piece of the pie you just have to search a lil bit to find some races.

Avanti,
You bring up a lot of great points! I certainly understand the safety aspect of racing needing to be addressed. I was in Daytona when Dale Sr died (unfortunately not at the race but literally I lived right next door at the time, and I was watching it on tv) and that really struct home for me on safety. Can you believe they used to run open faced helmets with no Hans devices? Can you believe that the pit crews didn't wear anything other then maybe a flame retardant suite if even that? Where is the best compromise between production car and race car? I find it hard to believe that a 400-500hp production car with a roll cage on a road course is gonna fair that much worse then a tubular race car in a wreck. I don't have the data to back that up though... does anyone?

What I do know is that the old saying race on Sunday sell on Monday is almost completely dead. I mean how many toyota's and honda's do you see with a nascar sticker on them now a days? No body cares about the brand on a tubular car because there is no brand. It's just some car with a motor in it. I'm gonna take a line from TG and say that the car has no soul at that point. Again I love the manufacturing and engineering side of racing as much as I do the driver's side. So how much can you take out of a factory car before it crosses the line of tubular race car? Good question. I thought there was enough Corvette left in the C5R for it to qualify. It was pushing the limits as you make a good point that you couldn't get the car with the same or similar engine equipped from the factory. However I do believe you could buy the C5R block directly from GM (not a crate motor though). But, with all of the GT cars in the Rolex or ALMS series, you knew what the car was. There was never a question. That's a Porsche, that's a Viper, that's a fill in the blank. With nascar I dare you to pick out one brand from another without being able to see the sticker!

So I guess my point is when you take out the manufacturer part of the equation you take out a lot of what makes racing fun, at least to me and I think that waters down the quality of the race and the racing that takes place. Just take the last ALMS race at Leguna Seca for instance. It was awesome because of the diversity in cars, not because they were all the same. I also think manufacturers have a lot to gain from the racing series that are based on production cars. For example: at a nascar race how many Chevy, Ford, Dodge or Toyota clubs were at the race? How many people do you think are there because they own said car? How many people bought said car because of the race? Now stack that up against ALMS where the cars are heavily based (at least compared to nascar) on production cars. I can tell you from experience that at the Petit Le Mans at RA the infield was filled with corvettes and Porches. There was a huge owner and manufacturer presence. I can also tell you that the C5R's made a huge impression on me when I saw them for the first time at the Rolex 24. And that's one of the reasons I own a Vette today. How about nascar back in the days when they were production based? Didn't they essentially create the phrase win on Sunday sell on Monday?

That would be awesome if the TA series got them to bring back modern versions of all those amazing cars for us to watch go at it!!! I doubt we'll ever see a strictly domestic production car based road course series ever again in America (even though I think the TA series had foreign entries even back then). Honestly though we already have two great series that are pretty popular that are based on production cars so I'm pretty happy with that. Now if only we could get some factory based cars back on the ovals...

Ex US Squid wrote:Yea but Sorta you come across as a guy who is a "purist" for the old-school and seem less impressed by the modern stuff. I, like Tux freakin love Nascar so I dont mind that they show that on Speed alot. They also still have a ton of coverage of events you never see anywhere else which is awesome. And Speed has to make money to stay on the air so a few more Nascar shows means more free flowing revenue to put towards small time shows like Continental series coverage that probably doesnt make Speed a dime to air it but is a must have. I feel there is still a ton of awesome racing on TV and with so many networks and channels wanting their piece of the pie you just have to search a lil bit to find some races.

Quite the contrary! I have respect, and love for both. However I don't know if I would call the current form of nascar modern... Some aspects of it certainly are without a doubt. What I do love about nascar is that it's all on the driver (meaning no electronic aids or fancy paddle shift transmissions) and seeing those car get hustled around a road course is awesome! Yeah I know you have to pay the bills and that nascar does that for speed. I just don't like that they've sold out to basically everyone and everything. I'm still waiting on the Maxipad 500 to debut... (where's the smiley hiding under the table at?)

If you look on the Forza storefront and search for Chevy Stock Car liveries you can buy the Vagasil car that Cartman drove on South Park from 1 or 2 seasons ago. Pretty much there and wouldnt it be funny if that car drove in the Cool Breeze 500 brought to you by Summers Eve. Oh so many layers and levels of funny! Cool Breeze is a joke from American Iron Season 1... I know all the AI racers will pity laugh at it.

You can no longer compare NASCAR to production-based cars. Sorta, you say that removing the manufacturer from the production "waters down" the racing. I don't see how that's true. You may not like that Chevy doesn't produce a RWD, V8, tube-frame car, but how does that affect the racing? If anything, having balanced builds makes the racing much closer. You could make the same argument for F1 and LMP cars. How many Red Bull dealerships are there? What production car do they make? The truth is, stockcars are prototypes and have been for some time. That doesn't mean that the manufacturer isn't involved or that the racing is "watered down". At least in my opinion.

I'm also all for safety, so I like tube-frame cars for the reasons Avanti stated. They are safer as they're purpose built with safety in mind. A production car needs only pass collision testing for speeds far below those achieved on a race track. How would a modified Dodge Challenger hold up on an oval if T-boned at 180? I don't know, but I'm sure the current stockcar would fair better.

Don't hear me saying that I don't like production-based road racing. I absolutely love it! I wish there were more ALMS and Grand-Am races each year and they got the attention that NASCAR does. Fact is, I love racing, and NASCAR has alot to offer, at least for me.

TuxTshirt wrote:You can no longer compare NASCAR to production-based cars. Sorta, you say that removing the manufacturer from the production "waters down" the racing. I don't see how that's true. You may not like that Chevy doesn't produce a RWD, V8, tube-frame car, but how does that affect the racing? If anything, having balanced builds makes the racing much closer. You could make the same argument for F1 and LMP cars. How many Red Bull dealerships are there? What production car do they make? The truth is, stockcars are prototypes and have been for some time. That doesn't mean that the manufacturer isn't involved or that the racing is "watered down". At least in my opinion.

Agreed, a stockcar today is anything but stock. I think manufacturer involvement affects racing because all you have in today's nascar is a 43 car field of the iroc series. Which is great if you liked the IROC series. Nascar is primarily a race between drivers, even though the teams still have a role in car development (Hendrick, RCR, Roush, etc). So can we assume that any racing series car or team is composed of 3 basic components: Driver, Car, and Team? Each of these factors is a variable in ALMS or the rolex series. In nascar I would argue that they have done their very best to remove the car variable from the equation. I'll acknowledge that it's still there but to me it's severely reduced (and I would argue the only reason it's there at all is because of the money the OEM's bring to the table). And to me racing needs those three factors to be at it's peak. (I know F1 and some others really have like 4 factors: Driver, Engine manufacturer, chassis, and team.) Last weeks ALMS race at Leguna Seca shows you can have all of these factors and still have very close racing. Having that third variable is an x factor of sorts which makes the racing more exciting because each car has even more strengths and weakness as we are discovering even in our own racing series. I think combining all those factors makes the racing more enjoyable to watch.

Yeah Squid, I'm laughing. You damn near made the whole field turn hard and crash with that line.

Back to real life. Wasn't there a Tampax sponsored stock car at one point?

Not yet as far as I can say... Id have taken advantage of the way to easy one liners it would have offered... Either Larry The Cable Guy or Foxworthy had a joke about the Kotex Cup with either a Tampax or Maxi Pad car I think.

Sorta, I hear your cries for factory appearing cars. The racing community calls it brand identity and I totally appreciate race series that maintain brand identity. That isn't to say I don't like certain series just because they don't have brand identity; the series I don't particularly care for are for reasons other than that.

Click the thumbnail to open a 3154×1703 pixel version. I like this picture due to the removed panels as it shows what the car really is. It is a shame the photographer didn't stand on the other side of the All Sport Mustang to photograph its front. If they did, I don't find it on the Interwebs.

What's this? It's a 1990s tube frame Trans-Am car which maintains some brand identity. The roofline is similar to the street Mustang's appearance of the day. The taillights work and are correctly shaped for the car. Earlier T-A Mustangs had the three horizontal brake light assembly, this car was built to represent a post-1996 Mustang Cobra so it has the three vertical light design. When Chevrolet rearranged the taillight assembly on their Camaro for model year 1996, the Z28 teams did as well. Call me odd, call me a stickler, call me anal if you wish, though it's details such as this I notice and appreciate.

Trans-Am back then was essentially NASCAR technology built with road course racing in mind. The cars were lighter, wider, and lower. The wheels were of unilug design and larger diameter with less sidewall than NASCAR. Trans-Am engines were a reduced displacement (310 cu. in.) version of the NASCAR engine (358 cu. in.) making almost as much power, and their radiators were steeply sloped rearward to lower the weight and increase surface area. T-A cars mirrored their stock car cousins in at least one regard, their headlights were just stickers.

Trans-Am homologated cars were all coupes so their street versions were of a 2+2 design whereas the race version was a "two seat" layout. This gave the teams room to push the engine behind the axle line making them a mid-engined car. Here are street car examples of other FMR cars.

Im not gonna lie Sorta(haha its a pun), But we agree on many things automotive but this is one that I feel the opposite about. To me racing is at its best when you the governing body takes painstaking steps to level the playing field ala Nascar. Take the Nationwide series. All 4 cars are drastically different in appearance yet the bodies and spoilers have been altered so that the aero affects all cars equally giving every team a fair shake at winning. Nascar has always been a bit of a "Spec" series from the start and over the years to improve competition the specs have gotten more involved. One thing you see a huge parody in Nascar is the engines. With all the cars being so close, you truly see the extra few HP that the Toyotas make and the Fords make with their new offerings while Dodge and Chevy always seem to have good power yet the thing that holds Dodge back is that they have a lack of Manufacturer involvement with the teams. Thats why Penske and Petty are and did ditch Mopar for Ford. Better factory support.

Now my whole point is that I really enjoy the Spec aspect of racing. I will be honest and say that there is nothing more discouraging than to enter a race as a driver or a fan and know that you are finishing less than first because another vehicle has a distinct advantage over another. Look at the IRL this year. Chevy has a huge motor advantage over Honda and it was so apparent that the IRL had to penalize the Chevy cars 10 grid positions at the start of the Long Beach race and yet the Chevy cars still finished in I think it was 8 of the top 10. Im not Honda fan but that would piss me off if I was a Honda driver and new that the Chevy cars were getting 9mph better speed down the straights and equal fuel efficiency. The deck is stacked against you at that point. Nope I love a good drivers battle and watching the ALMS at Leguna Seca in GT was a epic example of that. The cars are all so close in performance that once they got nose to tail on restarts it was like a GT freight train chuggin along lap after lap and you could see the drivers doing everything they possibly could to gain those precious tenths to gain on the car ahead. Freakin awesome competition.

Now every type of racing has its place though Sorta so Im not saying that all racing has to be this way but only that I appreciate this kind of racing. More to your point of view I will admit that the battle at Le Mans between the Audi and Peugeot teams was epic as well. Seeing the reliability and economy of the Audis battle the 4 seconds a lap faster 908s was poetry in a 24 hour motion. I think Avanti and Tux will agree with me that I have some preferences or affinities to certain types of racing but overall I love good hard competition no matter what types of cars or trucks are used. Cars, Trucks, ATVs, Buggies, Semis, Vans, hell even Lawnmower racing can be awesome.

P.S. and I also love hittin on Tuxs bumper

This has been a great discussion on what makes racing great for each of us! And Squid I have to say I think most people would agree with you. I mean the most successful racing series in the US is nascar by a really long ways. I know it's not the most restrictive series out there but I would wager it's probably in the top 10 or 20 (I could easily be wrong on that one).

So the crazy thing is I grew up watching nascar since the 80's. Not that I remember a lot about it since I was in grade school for the latter part of the 80's. So really for me I've watched mostly in the 90's and 2000's. So I grew up with a series that was already pretty restrictive and already full up race car (although the 80's car's still looked production). The only racing I ever saw in person or on tv was nascar and drag racing while I grew up. I think the first time I got introduced to road racing outside of the 2 tracks nascar ran on was while I lived in Daytona and I saw the rolex series (I was at the same race Dale Sr and Jr raced the #3 vette in). Man what an impression that made on me. I loved nascar so much at the time I even skipped a day of high school with a friend and parental permission to go see the truck race (1999 the one where Bodine (I think that's the driver) had that gruesome wreck, I was seated right in the middle of where that happened). I've only seen highlights from the early days of nascar, so maybe I have a unrealistic and romantic view of what the racing was like back when stockcars were actually stock.

So why the change of heart towards nascar and non production based racing? Here's my best explanation: I dont' know how many of y'all have been to college but if you have then you probably got into watching or playing a sport for your college. Did you ever go to a game and pull for the visiting team? Once you graduated did you stop rooting for your school? So it's probably safe to say that by going to that school you developed a bias or kinship to that institute, weather it be sports or anything else related to it. Well for me racing is the same way. Except instead of working for GM or going to school with them I simple own one of their products. In that ownership I gain bias and kinship to a lot of there products and their racing teams. When the cars I see on the track resemble or are very much like the car I have or can buy it really strikes a chord. Does that make since?

I also think over regulation of a racing series suffocates innovation. On the other hand some regulation can spur innovation... (think 20 ft long fuel line).

I want to offer up one final scenario for you to consider:
Lets say you are in a racing series that is well regulated but still has some room for innovators and hard workers. Let's say your one of those innovators and you stay up every night polishing valve stems (so to speak?) and the like so that you can gain the edge on your opponents. Everything you've done is within the written rules and for the next few races you blow the doors off the competition and the series manager requires you to run an extra few hundred pounds to even the racing. Is that fair?

http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-ss-2.html

Looks like Chevy was reading this thread...

LOL! Good spot, Sorta. What I'd really love someone to *spot* is where I went off on the current T-A steward to bring back 5L pony car wars.

If you'll allow me to inject 55¢ worth of response here …?

I'd say that's fair. If you spent sleepless nights (polishing your valve stems) knowing that (polishing your valve stems) would reduce the friction between the ... LOL! I've got to stop with that analogy; it wasn't leading anywhere productive and would have only led to massive amounts of 'pun-ny' laughter.

At any rate, if you were doing something to your car knowing you were gaining an advantage even though it was within the rule set, and you won a few consecutive races because of it? Yes, penalizing with ballast is fair (if that's what said series does to winners). Penalizing a winner with ballast is only meant to balance the field, they don't care how one got to victory lane. If you hadn't done anything to your car and managed to win, you'd still be penalized.

Okay let me give another example: You stay up all night studying for a test, forfeiting all other partying activities. The next day your the only one to ace the test and throw off the bell curve. So to make it fair to the other class mates who didn't study hard the next test the teacher gives you a test with additional harder questions added to only your test, and you get the same time as everyone else in the class to complete the test. Is that fair?

and no the extra questions aren't worth extra points...

I want to caveat that I'm not trying to start trouble... just trying to provoke thought and get y'all's take on the subject.

Sorta