NASCAR Discussion

Jimmie discussed during and after the race that they were destroying R/F tires.  That's enough for me.  It's a moot point anyway.

Assuming NASCAR won't enforce this discipline in the future is erroneous I believe.  Just because this is the first time they've acted doesn't mean they WON'T be consistant moving forward.  This is called "progression."  Fact is, this is the most blatant act since the Chase structure has been implemented that has plenty of evidence.  So stay tuned.

So, are you suggesting that NASCAR tie up valuable time and resources on petty shit like guys blowing tires?  Seems silly to me.

No, that's not an insult, I'm calling the IDEA silly, not you.  Just to be clear.  And yes, we're friends.  Suggesting you stop watching isn't an insult, it seems to bother you that much that it may be easier on your emotions and stress levels to just do something else with your time.  And if you mean "fanboy," well check your past.  That goes both ways.  You claimed I had biased "blinders" on.  Please take yours off before calling someone else blind.

Hey, if they police everything the same moving forward, I'd be tickled pink - maybe even purple! But I doubt that happens. NASCAR's "body of work" would indicate that they won't, but I will give them a chance for while to see.

I would just like to see more black and white and less gray when it comes to rules like this. Intenional spins are illegal - got it. Pitting under green??? Talking funny on the radio??? That's what I'm upset about. And if all it takes to warrant an investigation into the event(s) is questionable/coincidental timing, then yeah, I think they should look at tires and all sorts of miniscule stuff, to be fair. In most cases, it wouldn't take much effort. A quick review of telemetry would tell you a lot very quickly, so would radio chatter.

I'm still upset about the inconsistency in the restarts. (And inconsistency in general.) If the sport is going to have so many gray areas, at least make those areas gray all the time. Too many times NASCAR lays down the law like there's a black and white rule somewhere, when in reality, there is no such thing. I wish they would see it more like a wake-up call, change the rules, warn the teams, but not issue penalties for the initial infraction of something that's gray.

NASCAR is not like F1 or sports car racing.  There is no telemetry.  What you see in TV for throttle and brake are estimated I believe.  I know for certain that the teams have no telemetry, just ECU data for fuel injection.

We definitely agree on restarts.  Here's the thing though, do you watch baseball?  Balls and strikes aren't black and white.  It's up to the umpire to make a judgement call.  Sometimes we agree, sometimes not.  That's the way restarts are currently set up.  It's a judgement call.  Sometimes they get it wrong.  Sure, they could use timing lines to determine the starts, however that defeats the purpose of side-by-side restarts.  Too many variables.  If the leader spins his tires, it doesn't mean the guy in second cheated.  There's too many variables.  Look at the inconsistancies with fans themselves.  The same ones bitching about using timing marks for track position and would prefer using camera views when cautions come out, are the same ones bitching about the way restarts are called.  I'm not saying that's you, but you see my point.  I believe there will ALWAYS be gray areas and NASCAR does a pretty good job at keeping things in check.

NASCAR does have telemetry - the stuff on TV is real-time as far as I know. I used to work with a guy that installed the boxes and cameras for NASCAR/TV on raceday. The ECU is a black-box (they had a seperate one before, but, like the cameras, it wasn't in every car), but it also has a transmitter that can send out the data.

That being said, NASCAR doesn't actively monitor it. And they keep it away from the teams. They can go back and look at it, though. I feel it would be very easy for them to change that to an active monitoring system, but that's just me.

Well then, yes, it would be quite easy to check that out.  In which case, I hope they checked it out in the case of Bowyer.  I'm assuming they did. 

I remember a year or two ago hearing Larry MacReynolds saying that the throttle/brake indicators on screen for qualifying were replicated guesses based on speed.  But it sounds right if you knew a guy.  Did he tell you what data it sends?  Does it know steering angle?  I certainly don't see any sensor devices on the column, maybe they have something at the gear?  I doubt it though.

Yeah, I wish that guy could have gotten me a job!

From what I understand its throttle, brake, speed, and rpm that is monitored. Don't think steering, bias, switches etc. are monitored...

Here you go Sim.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2013/09/11/joey-logano-david-gilliland-jeff-gordon-chase-richmond-conspiracy/2801119/

Well, okay, throwing out the poor way that article explains what happened, I feel this is great test.

So, now the precedent has been set that NASCAR has to investigate this. If they don't (which they are), then they are hypocrites. And this won't the be the last. They will have to do this for each questionable incident.

Now, that being said, this just illustrates exactly what I was talking about. This happens every week! Remember the first win of the year for Kenseth? Fox played his audio on the broadcast at the end of the race. "[Spotter] get this guy down outta my way!" "Workin' on it..." No one said jack about that. Don't you think that affected the Chase? Who's in first place because of bonus points for victories (and other things)??? Hmm...

Elliot Sadler warned about this too. "Once Pandora's box has been opened, it will never close - and people may not like what they find out."

This happens multiple times every race. Cars a lap down move out of the groove to let the leaders by, they get help from each other, the keep tabs on who is where in the points, and where they are on the track. NASCAR has just set the standard that this is no longer allowable.

The only good I see out of this, is that IF NASCAR sticks to its precedent (which I doubt), then we may be seeing the end of the big-money super teams that dominate the sport. It might be easier for the little guys to get in, and we might have more than 43 cars show up to each race that actually want to run the whole damn thing, not just the first 5 laps...

Lapped cars moving out of the groove is good, correct racing etiquette.  That happens in every form of motorsport and should.

Okay, I agree with that. What if they don't move then, for an opposing team member?

They probably wouldn't be penalized, however the aftermath would be grim in the garage.  Not only the guys they screwed over would make their life hell, but so would everybody else, because that could have been them.  Racing is somewhat self-policing in that way.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2013/09/13/chase-sprint-cup-penalties-joey-logano-david-gilliland-jeff-gordon/2811601/

I understand this action, however not quite sure I agree with it.  Moving forward I understand NASCAR is trying to set a precedence and correct the current mess.

doing the dega infield thing this when's. I'll try and take pics and post later.

I've got a bunch more that I haven't hosted yet but doing the infield thing was a blast.  Worth doing at least once.

I haven't heard anything about it.  What's it all about?

https://s189.photobucket.com/user/strongb05/slideshow/Nascar%20at%20Dega%20Nov%202013

So at Dega you can camp for the duration of weekend inside of the infield.  Price is comparable to paying to see all of the races in the grand stands, probably a little cheaper.  The infield is divided up somewhat by family friendly and wild party areas.  Dega Blvd is just one huge party all night long.  You have access to most parts of the infield accept for where the drivers and cars are to include the pits.  I have posted pictures above but I also have video from all around the track.  You can tent camp or do the motor home thing, most places don't have hook ups but with all things nascar if you bring the $$$ anything is possible.

So with the first day of testing its clear:  Chevy is FAST.     Im taking some notes mentally just to keep in mind.... We gonna do Fantasy Season II Tux?

Ex US Squid wrote:So with the first day of testing its clear:  Chevy is FAST.     Im taking some notes mentally just to keep in mind.... We gonna do Fantasy Season II Tux?

Is a bear Catholic?.....I mean, does The Pope shit in the woods?......errrrr ummmmmmmmm what were we talking about?  

Welp.. already got a ticket to the 2014 Daytona 500.  

Enjoy watching them not race each other in the NNS and CWTS races...

I have a feeling Daytona is going to be boring again this year - I hope not, I just have a bad feeling...

I'm still jealous though.

Simcik wrote:Enjoy watching them not race each other in the NNS and CWTS races...

I have a feeling Daytona is going to be boring again this year - I hope not, I just have a bad feeling...

I'm still jealous though.

It's boring on TV, in person it's worth it.

Josh on ze bass wrote:

Simcik wrote:Enjoy watching them not race each other in the NNS and CWTS races...

I have a feeling Daytona is going to be boring again this year - I hope not, I just have a bad feeling...

I'm still jealous though.

It's boring on TV, in person it's worth it.

This is almost certainly correct. I don't know, I just don't like how NASCAR seems to have no problems adding more gray area and putting themselves in a place to call balls or strikes by telling the drivers they can't draft in pairs.

3 is okay. 2 isn't. Unless it's just a bump, then it's okay... Give me a break... 

Says the guy that has ZERO racing series management experience...

I just wish they'd make the changes they want by changing the hardware so that it was impossible (or just stupid dangerous) to do, not by giving themselves more power to determine the outcome of races via subjective interpretations.

Simcik wrote:I just wish they'd make the changes they want by changing the hardware so that it was impossible (or just stupid dangerous) to do, not by giving themselves more power to determine the outcome of races via subjective interpretations.

Did you watch last year's Cup Series plate racing?  They couldn't tandem draft.  It was all 2-3 wide pack racing.  So it seems they've already done it.