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TuxTshirt=RICHARD

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TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  TuxTshirt on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:23 am

Ok. I'm going to be a Richard here. This is in regard to our tire conversation last night.

The tires on Tux's truck are 265/70R17. The tires on Sim's truck are 275/60R20. Let's do some math:

Aspect ratio: Tux--265mm*0.70=185.5mm Sim--275mm*0.60=165mm

165<185.5

To further Richardify:


In the exaggerated picture above, even with the sidewall height being equal, which tire/wheel combo do you think would be more comfy?

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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Smus on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:29 am

Yours.


However as I'm sure will be discussed, tire sidewall height can = comfortable ride only if the pressures are the same along with spring and damper stiffness...there are too many variables unknown about each truck.

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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  TuxTshirt on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:32 am

Assume all else is equal. As this was the discussion. Our trucks are the same.

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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Smus on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:03 am

Yes, then yours.

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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Remaggib on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:07 am

The conversation started with same trucks, different rim sizes? The smaller rim will have more sidewall (70 height aspect vs 60) and therefore have more give and sidewall flex. I'd take 17s over 20s any day. Never was one for large rims though, don't like the look or feel.
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  TuxTshirt on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:14 am

Remaggib wrote:The conversation started with same trucks, different rim sizes? The smaller rim will have more sidewall (70 height aspect vs 60) and therefore have more give and sidewall flex. I'd take 17s over 20s any day. Never was one for large rims though, don't like the look or feel.

I DO like the look of the 20s on the Rams. I think they look sharp, however I don't mind the 17s either. To me, they somehow seem fitting and look more "functional" on a truck. It all depends on the wheel style though. On my old pickup, I had cladded 17s and they looked cheap. My new one has painted alloys. Simple, and clean looking.

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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Simcik on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:49 am

I could have sworn the factory 17"s had 275/60 tires... If not, then, no they are not the same.

My point was that if you put two identical width and aspect ratio tires on any given rim, they'd ride the same, no matter the amount of rim in the middle... What I did not consider is suspension alignment with the larger wheels. This may affect the ride. Anyway - if they tires aren't the same, then my bad. It's not hard to mess up two numbers...
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:56 am

Thicker sidewall does equate to a more cushy ride.

Now to shoot this from a neutral standpoint:

Because the width is in millimeters and because the aspect ratio is in percentage it is possible for two different tires to have the same amount of sidewall.

It may be quite difficult to find equality as tire manufacturers produce sizes where there is demand. There are popular sizes (205/50-15: Jimminy fuck, which tire company DOESN'T make these?) There are off-sizes (195/55-14: Kumho makes a race tire this size). And there are phantom sizes (205/30-16: theoretically possible to make though nobody does).

Fifty percent of 205 is 102.5.
Forty point one-nine-six-zero-seven-eight~four percent of 255 is also 102.5.
We'd need a custom made 255/40.1960784-15 tire to have equal sidewall as a 205/50-15.

205/45-16 (92.25) and
185/50-16 (92.50) are "close but no cigar."
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Sorta05 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:22 am

I put 16" low profile (relative to what was on it) tires/wheels on my El Camino to replace the 14"s (I think) that were on it. Damn thing rides as rough as my Z06 and trans am with the low profile tires and oem springs (shocks are monroe something but shouldn't be too far off of oem specs).
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:06 am

TuxTshirt wrote:… In the exaggerated picture above, even with the sidewall height being equal, which tire/wheel combo do you think would be more comfy?
The larger wheels mean the sidewall is a lower percentage of the overall diameter. My vote is for the smaller wheel giving a more comfy ride.
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Simcik on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:17 am

Ehh, how does that matter exactly? The rim doesn't flex - at least not the last time I checked. Only the sidewall of the tire gives and absorbs bumps. The radius of the rim *may* affect the ride by altering the suspension's characteristics or responses, but if the actual sidewall heights are the same, and the tires are the same (other than rim size), I still don't see there being much difference.

However, seeing as how I got two numbers backwards to begin with, it doesn't matter.
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Simcik on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:18 am

The title is 100% accurate, however... Very Happy
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Remaggib on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:19 pm

Simcik wrote:Ehh, how does that matter exactly? The rim doesn't flex - at least not the last time I checked. Only the sidewall of the tire gives and absorbs bumps.

That's exactly it. Tux has 20mm more sidewall to flex than you do.
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Sorta05 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:21 pm

The larger wheel and tire means more weight so even if the sidewalls are the same the larger amount of mass means it will effect dampening and spring rates. I believe in theory you can overcome the difference without compromising ride i.e. bmw's and many other cars that use low profile tires and still have good ride quality.
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Simcik on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:54 pm

Remaggib wrote:
Simcik wrote:Ehh, how does that matter exactly? The rim doesn't flex - at least not the last time I checked. Only the sidewall of the tire gives and absorbs bumps.

That's exactly it. Tux has 20mm more sidewall to flex than you do.

Right, I mistakenly thought we both had 275/60 tires, which would have the same height sidewall...
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Remaggib on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:59 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs9DYisSsg


That's about all I understood during the actual argument
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Simcik on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:06 pm

Sorta05 wrote:The larger wheel and tire means more weight so even if the sidewalls are the same the larger amount of mass means it will effect dampening and spring rates. I believe in theory you can overcome the difference without compromising ride i.e. bmw's and many other cars that use low profile tires and still have good ride quality.

Now I'm gonna be the Richard: That's not always true. Many modern allows are lighter than rubber, not to mention the voids which weigh nothing. Oh, and then there is the moment of inertia to consider. Yeah, anyway. There are a few reasons many high performance cars use low profile tires...
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Sorta05 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:28 pm

If you just increase the wheel diameter and not the overall size of the tire you may be right. Generally when you increase the rim you increase the overall wheel size. Unless you have magnesium wheels or something, the overall larger diameter combination of the wheels and tires means more weight. Watch the weight category when you increase the wheel diameter in forza.
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Sorta05 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:36 pm

Oh and actually that's not true at all, lower profile tires do not equal better handling. With almost all things in life going to extremes isn't a good idea. There are several comparisons out there done by magazines (I've read at least one can't remember which mag) but running ultra low profile tires netted seconds slower lap times. My apologies for not being able to produce a reference at this time.
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  TuxTshirt on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:02 pm

Simcik wrote:The title is 100% accurate, however... Very Happy

FINALLY! We agree on something.

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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:34 pm

Simcik wrote:
Sorta05 wrote:The larger wheel and tire means more weight so even if the sidewalls are the same the larger amount of mass means it will effect dampening and spring rates. I believe in theory you can overcome the difference without compromising ride i.e. bmw's and many other cars that use low profile tires and still have good ride quality.

Now I'm gonna be the Richard: That's not always true. Many modern allows are lighter than rubber, not to mention the voids which weigh nothing. Oh, and then there is the moment of inertia to consider. Yeah, anyway. There are a few reasons many high performance cars use low profile tires...
We're still working off the picture provided by Tux. We have to presume both wheels are made of the same substance and are of the same design, the only difference is size. So relatively speaking, the larger wheel will weigh more than the smaller wheel. When equipped on the same car, the larger wheel will affect the ride with its weight.

Sorta- the articles you read, basically came down to, "Yes, you may go to a lower profile to a certain extent, but don't overdo it." ?
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Remaggib on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:19 pm

lol Tux, I didn't think you seriously would send me the $5 for the benchmark track, I'm going to put that money toward another track or car, thank you!


Edit, logged in to iRacing and saw this. Edited just in case Tux doesn't want his name out there, but yeah.
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  Simcik on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:56 pm

Funny quote there. I was kinda right, though. Each new copy of the game SHOULD have shipped with a DLC code for both Benchmark and the soccer fields...
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Re: TuxTshirt=RICHARD

Post  TuxTshirt on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:09 am

You're welcome Rem.

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