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On Sandy Hook

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On Sandy Hook

Post  Smus on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:14 am

Well I'm hoping this will be a safe place for me to express my opinions after a couple days of fact finding without being chastised and chided for simply expressing my 2nd amendment views while using the 1st to do so.



Let me preface this by saying that the horrible acts at Sandy Hook elementary are exactly that, a horrible act of mindless violence...yes, mindless violence.


As the facts have come to light, it appears that the shooter was not only trained to use a firearm by the woman whom he murdered first, but that according to reports had difficulty, or could not at all, feel emotional pain or empathize with others. I know that people with an agenda to ban either high powered rifles, handguns, or the like will use this opportunity to attempt to stifle gun possession in this country. It is far to convenient a tragedy to overlook, especially when the vast majority of victims are innocent children. The possibility of using children to push an agenda is a moving image that is already having an effect on not only members of the US Senate, but also the silent NRA. It is true that the primary weapon used, supposedly an AR-15 style "Assault Weapon" may be more than what is necessary to do your standard big game hunting. However, with that said, it is the job of the market to fill the demand of the consumers. Soldiers either currently enlisted or soldiers recently retired have been trained on these weapons, they are comfortable with weapons shaped as such and prefer the use of them over something designed purely for sport hunting. This does not make them any more deadly in the proximity that the individual shot than a standard 12 gauge shotgun.

This feeling and these emotions fully came to a head while I was attempting to watch the Sunday Night Football game on NBC between the New England Patriots and the San Francisco 49ers. Only a few minutes into the 1st quarter as a viewer I was shuttled off to some "non denominational memorial service" to listen to our President speak. It was nothing more than a political speech guised in a memorial. Yes, he rattled off the names of the children and read verses from the Holy Bible, but interjected was a political stump decrying the number of violent crimes he's faced during his time in office. I was sure as the day is long that when my eyeballs and I were wisked away from the game to an ill-prepared man outside the memorial service I knew that the decision was made shortly before the game.


I guess what I'm trying to get at is this, and if no one responds thats fine because I need to tell someone who may understand my frustration because apparently the individuals whom I thought understood my ideals do not understand them at all, it bothers me that this man (and at 20 he was a man) slaughtered 20 children and numerous adults. It bothers me and I really did care throughout the entire time on Friday and into Saturday, but when mid-day Saturday had rolled around and people in authority like Mayor Bloomberg and whomever else began to ring the gun control bell before the bodies of the innocent have even been cold and buried it bothers me. Will there be discussions? Yes. Should there be discussons on the topic? Yes. It's America, we can disagree on policy. But when the President of the United States and the news networks like NBC strategically pick the time to show yet another speech by the president to force feed us more tragedy (because if it bleeds, it leads) intermingled with politics, then I have a serious problem with not only the true intent, which was never really in question in my mind, and also the true sincerity of the act, which draws even more scrutiny from the likes of myself. It is just another way that they can brainwash the weak into believing whatever they say and it bothers me. For whatever reason NBC interrupting abruptly just felt way to 1984 for my taste...and I don't like it.

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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Remaggib on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:33 am

My brain shut down for the night, and I'll re-read in the tomorrow-time. But it looks like you are against the ban of assault rifles? If you are pro-assault rifle, I am with you. I can expand more when I can think, right now brain = mush Sleep
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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Smus on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:34 am

Yeah, I'm pro pretty much everything short of fully auto .50 cal and RPGs.

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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  TuxTshirt on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:38 am

It's like my buddy says: "If everyone were armed, crazies would get off less shots."

Fact of the matter is gun control will never happen. If you take guns from the law-abiding folks, the criminals will still get them. Just like criminals still get drugs that are illegal. Where there's a market, there's a black market. Having said that, strict laws are one way to go, but they still won't be perfect and crazies will still kill people. But, God is just. That sniveling coward is where he belongs now, and those innocent children are in a place so good we can't explain it in worldy terms.


Matthew 19:14
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14 But Jesus said, “[a]Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”



Matthew 13:41-42
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom [a]all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:10 am

Smus wrote:…Soldiers either currently enlisted or soldiers recently retired have been trained on these weapons, they are comfortable with weapons shaped as such and prefer the use of them over something designed purely for sport hunting. This does not make them any more deadly in the proximity that the individual shot than a standard 12 gauge shotgun.
Amen brother. I love me an M-16 and some day I will find a way to own the military version if it means living outside of the United States … or somehow becoming the beneficiary of a Fast & Furious type deal.
Smus wrote:Yeah, I'm pro pretty much everything short of fully auto .50 cal and RPGs.
Oh what a Debbie Downer; Wink those are the fun ones. I liked claymore training, AT-4 training, throwing fragmentation grenades and shooting the M203 grenade launcher mounted below the M-16. The M249 SAW was also loads of fun though we were only given 8" sections of belt because the drill sergeants didn't want us to have too much fun. If we could live in a world with no wars, it'd be awesome if we could go to dedicated ranges and shoot these things (M249, M203, .50 cal, AT-4 and more) for a price.

My take.

The media and a group of people have been calling for a ban on semi-automatic weapons. This means a ban on every piece (even pistols) that fire one round every time the trigger is pulled and chamber the next round automatically. I have a feeling the sheeple don't know what the term semi-automatic encompasses. It means a disarmed public. It means a public that will be far more easy for our government to walk all over. I say, "Fuck. That!" We don't need a ban on firearms. We need more education about them.

There is a growing concern that these shootings are caused by mental instability. While this may not be the perfect fix it does focus on a more reasonable part of the equation- the human element.

I remember a line (I believe it was during the primaries) where one of the candidates mentioned bad parents being the root of gun violence and many people on social media not understanding the correlation. I understand it perfectly. Parents have offspring. These offspring grow and befriend their peers. They all get coaxed into things, some are coaxed more easily than others. It's up to the parental unit to be the first line when it comes to educating their kids on the wrong/indifferent/right parts of life.

Far too often kids today grow up in a house where both parents work. The kids come home (maybe they do their homework, maybe they don't), they play video games or watch age inappropriate movies and don't get educated that what these items portray is okay in the imaginary world, but not okay in the real world. Other kids are cumming home and creating kids of their own. "Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding." -Harvey Danger's song Flagpole Sitta.

We need more focus on our parenting [specifically the lack thereof] because it has deteriorated over time. Our society has become so constricted by laws that we can't discipline misbehaving kids. Our parents got downright beat with belts and buckles. I received a wooden spoon to my ass or the classic soap in the mouth. Today's teachers can't bring out the vaunted "board of education" and parents won't spank or otherwise physically punish their bad children for fear of losing them and being brought up on abuse charges in court! It all sucks.

It's optional though I'm curious now. We have some teen members, right? How would your parents punish you if you did something very wrong? Did y'all get spanked? Or just sent to your room (as if that's punishment with all the electronic goodies today) without dinner?
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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Remaggib on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:51 am

Good point, it does go back to parenting. I've been saying for a while we're all screwed because parents are losing control of their kids nowadays. Unfortunately it seems that's the way we're headed. Parents don't discipline their hellions brats kids and they get away with more and more and eventually, this happens.

Tux, I didn't have you figured for a religious man, that's awesome. Probably the only good thing that can immediately be taken away from this is that they can't be hurt anymore and they're in a much better place. Still hurts like hell for the families though, hopefully they're finding the strength to make it through. The cameras leaving would help though.

I'm trying to get my money together to purchase myself a firearm and get my CC permit. I found a range near me that for $8 an hour I can rent a gun at a time, and they have a huge selection. So I can rent a gun, see how it shoots, feels, etc, and make a comfortable choice from there as to what I want. However, CC is tough for me. I'm very particular with my seemingly ever increasing waistband, and can't see an inside-the-pants holster being comfortable. So I may end up open carrying. Unless the place has a no gun sign, in which case I'd have to conceal. But shootings are happening everywhere, and when I do go out in public I'd like to be prepared. The no gun sign just seems a better invitation to would-be shooters to open up due to less resistance. How many shootings have happened where guns are not allowed? How many of those were stopped, slowed, or otherwise affected by an otherwise law abiding citizen who had a gun in a no gun zone? Those are the stats that the media won't look at. And the stories they'll pass up because talking about the shooting that kept going is going to sell to more viewers.

I feel I'm losing touch with reality because I no longer watch the news. They only focus on the negative, because it sells. I remember (back in my day) how they used to cover positive things, large donations to charity, people going out of their way to make the world a better place, etc. Now, however, it seems it's just shooting this and shooting that. They want to ban guns? I've got news for ya, news people, cops have guns too, and they don't go off randomly shooting up schools and churches. Well, the stray cop once in a great while might, but you get the picture. It's a sad world we live in, and we're about the last generation that CAN make a positive difference. How you might ask? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUmJDVRDRTQ
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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  TuxTshirt on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:56 pm

Right on Avanti! The human element. That's the issue. It's so simple it's silly. We've all heard the saying: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Well, duh. It all starts at the parental/environmental level.

This, my friends, is the libtard movement in the flesh. There's no accountability anymore. Think about most things liberals fight for without considering the long-term repercussions. This murderous coward had questionable upbringing in a society that encourages it. The family system is frowned upon nowadays because it seems "old fashioned", not "consistent with modern times". Fact is, modern times are a snapshot of the cancer called "the progressive movement". Look it up, a BIG enemy of the progressives is God. The family system was established from the beginning of our existence, and now it's being tossed to the curb as if it's unnecessary. These values are established by God. When you remove God from the equation, you get no accountability, and we all get to see the evil and sin of the world acted out. And these libtards want to blame the firearm. As if, the firearm fired itself.

All I have to say is, get used to this friends. This is another example of the "downfall of society" that I mentioned in the political thread. And Avanti, it was the conservative Romney who mentioned it starting with the family and parents as a root cause of violence. Go figure, the conservative understands the "real problem". Sorry to have made this political, but it's just another example of what I'm talking about.

To close. I'll be the first to admit, I'm a hyprocrite sometimes. I talk of values in this thread, and in another I post funny Jaboody videos. I consider my audience. And if any of you are offended, let me know, I'll delete them.


Oh, and one more thing, notice the attention the murderer is getting from the media. They're all concerned with why he did this. It's a shame they don't see themselves as part of the cause. Selective programming. These criminals get attention. That's what they're after. So the next time this happens, the criminal will get attention again. These people should be treated like streakers at football games, as a message to future would-be cowards.

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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Smus on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:32 pm

Tux I think you're spot on. It is the Progressive movement that started the slow fall were now really seeing come to life. A lot of problems we complain and are concerned with now have their origins in the Progressive movement. Being a citizen of Minnesota we and Wisconsin get the unfortunate distinction where progressivism has strong roots, strong enough that our Minnesota version of the Democratic party isn't enough, its the DFL or Democratic Farm and Labor party...gosh that sounds awful socialistic doesn't it?

If you look at issues that we have in a broader sense, you have the Temperance movement which attempted to pry sin from society, the segregation of the US military under Woodrow Wilson, the emergence of eugenics and societal planning that spawned Himmler and Hitler's "Final Solution", the progressive income tax, the dawning of the welfare state, the first attempt at global government through the league of nations...the list goes on...

It is a societal issue. It is the lack of a strong family unit, a lack of some sort of religious or faith in society, the never ending war on our senses through greater and greater spectacles of wonder through television. The lackluster compulsory educational system that while "free" has turned into a propaganda device for the individuals in power at all levels of government.

As long as the bread is hot and the circuses are spectacular the Average American doesn't care. When they care we have 2010 and the townhalls of August. People get mad and the government buckles if only for a moment.

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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Sorta05 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:51 pm

It bothers me that there are people using this tragic event to help promote their personal agenda. In other news car should be made illegal because they kill several orders of magnitude more children every year then guns...

http://www.kidsandcars.org/statistics.html

These are just the deaths not related to traffic incidents/accidents (running over a child or leaving them in a hot car, etc)

The newest stats I could find on traffic deaths is over 1,200 deaths from 2003:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809762.pdf

Cars kill more children then guns therefore they are much much more dangerous and should be banned immediately!!! Cars Kill Children!!!!

Avanti I'm with you. I don't watch the news any more either. It's just turned in to a bunch of people trying to find new ways to spin the news to make more money. What happen to ethics and professionalism in this country (i.e. unbiased and factual news)?


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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Smus on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:53 pm

I think that died centuries ago...seriously.

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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Simcik on Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:16 pm

Okay, don't have time to read everything right now, but so far I agree with all of you.

I know one thing, I'm glad the sick son of bitch is dead. The Devil will do far more to punish him than any of the east-coast court systems.

What I love is how people can ignore the state of gun laws in Connecticut and say we need tighter regs. CT has some of the strictest gun laws, and in fact, the guns that were used were owned legally. Like someone mentioned, it's parenting. They make gun cases with locks, trigger locks, etc. You should use those with kids no matter what, but when you have a troubled one?

Furthermore, how can people not understand that laws will do nothing to criminals? It was illegal for Lanza to carry a loaded gun unconcealed in his mother's car. It was illegal for him to carry these guns into a school zone. It was illegal for him to break into the campus. It was illegal for him to kill 26 people. DID ANY OF THAT STOP HIM?

That answer is simply, no. Criminals don't follow laws. If they did, they wouldn't be criminals. Furthermore, some people think that if they make guns illegal and confiscate them, the criminals wouldn't have any either. Sadly, all we need to do is look at every other illegal thing out there - marijuana? It's illegal, and it is always being confiscated - and yet it is everywhere. What I find really striking is that many of the people who want to make guns illegal, thinking they will disappear then, are the same ones who have some type of illegal substance hidden in their closests...

Eh, done for now. Buy ammo, fellas, this may be the "shot heard 'round the world" for the 2nd American Revolution.
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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Remaggib on Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:58 pm

Simcik wrote:marijuana? It's illegal, and it is always being confiscated - and yet it is everywhere.

Then there's Colorado... Looking at vacationing out that way late next year when the wife gets paid vacation time Twisted Evil
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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  StalkerStang on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:55 am

I'm in agreement as well with most of what is said.

What do criminals do? They break laws. How does making new laws keep a criminal from doing what they do best? If anything its just building they're resume more.

Its sad what happened to those kids, the world is steadily going down the wrong road, and it seems to be at an exponential rate. The things we have to do in the healthcare industry is scary sometimes, there are many unstable people everywhere.

But to say lack of religious values is part of the problem? Sorry but thats where I stray from some of what has been said. I was raised with no religion, and never attended a day of church in my life. I know whats right and wrong, and how to carry myself because of my father. I respect those who believe in a religion, and I don't look down on anyone who does either. But know that its not for everyone.

Please don't say lack of religion is a downfall of society, I have done whats right for many years now and I would say I have contributed to society in both my profession, in the general way I carry myself, and who I have helped when I am able to. Like I said, credit goes to my father for raising me how he did, not a religion.

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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  TuxTshirt on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:35 pm

StalkerStang wrote:I'm in agreement as well with most of what is said.

What do criminals do? They break laws. How does making new laws keep a criminal from doing what they do best? If anything its just building they're resume more.

Its sad what happened to those kids, the world is steadily going down the wrong road, and it seems to be at an exponential rate. The things we have to do in the healthcare industry is scary sometimes, there are many unstable people everywhere.

But to say lack of religious values is part of the problem? Sorry but thats where I stray from some of what has been said. I was raised with no religion, and never attended a day of church in my life. I know whats right and wrong, and how to carry myself because of my father. I respect those who believe in a religion, and I don't look down on anyone who does either. But know that its not for everyone.

Please don't say lack of religion is a downfall of society, I have done whats right for many years now and I would say I have contributed to society in both my profession, in the general way I carry myself, and who I have helped when I am able to. Like I said, credit goes to my father for raising me how he did, not a religion.

Religion doesn't raise people. In fact, religion is a negative word to me. Religion is legalistic, relationship is more important and accurate. And, I never said it raises people. People raise people. You rightly give credit to your father. Who instilled values in you that are consistant with Christian values (whether or not he knew it). I believe these values are traced back to our Father (God). You don't. I'm not judging you. In fact, it's also a Christian belief that we're all equal; you, me, the liberals, all of us. But you see my point: values, responsiblity, love, selflessness. All consistant with biblical values. In Christian circles, God is Love. What happens when you remove Love (God)? Hate, and evil reign. You have free will, as do I. I believe, you may not. That's up to each of us. But we DO agree and recognize the root problem, right? We also see the decline of society, correct? This is all prophesied. I believe it's not coincidental, that's all. I don't think of you or anyone else differently. And don't hear me saying you SHOULD or HAVE to believe. I WISH we all did though, that will never change.

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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Josh on ze bass on Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:48 pm

Not gonna read all the posts nor join in the discussions. just cuz Smile but just like to say that I work at an elementary school and this weekend rocked me pretty hard (in a bad way of rocking).

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Re: On Sandy Hook

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:43 pm

We all know what died years ago, the notion that you should do unto others as you'd have done to you. Too many people are selfish and don't care what happens to others as long as their actions don't come back and bite them. We need to be absolutely certain it comes back and not just bites them, but eats, digests, and turns them into excrement.

This behavior is seen in the Treasury department, Wall Street, and big banker dumb fucks though it flows down to the common folk. I love the feline family and we can make this a great natural offering. Can we feed these people to lions, tigers, panthers, jaguars, and cougars, please? We could dress and scent a few specific people as gazelles, place them in a field and time how long they out run hungry cheetahs.

Bottom line. It wouldn't bother me one bit if they disappeared from this planet, and I don't care how.
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