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Raptor or Ram runner?

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Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Sorta05 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:12 pm

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:08 pm

So Motor Trend declares the Raptor the victor because it performs better on the average of two surface types than the Ram Runner. I'll give the Ram Runner the dirt surface though a buyer can't really go wrong with either choice. Also, the trucks price ranges are in the same ballpark.

The Dodge's road-wandering mentioned by the test drivers can be corrected. Also on the line of corrections, I hope Ford addressed the "bending frame" issue after the first model year Raptor … though, this is an American car company we're talking about. Ford probably didn't address the issue at the underlying cause (because accountants rule American car companies and the proper fix would cost too much). They probably just gave a little reinforcing strip of metal and said, "'at'll do!"
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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Sorta05 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:46 am

It wasn't a design flaw it was a user flaw. The frame bent as per designed. When you hit a jump to hard or land to hard the frame bends instead allowing the truck to bounce and send the truck out of control. Morale of the story is those trucks with bent frames were driven beyond the limit.

The trans in the dodge would drive me nuts... I haven't driven either so I couldn't tell you which is better.
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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:07 am

So the frame was designed to be the "fuse-able link" in the system? Wow! That's not a cheap fuse. It might just be me, but the frame as the designed breaking point is unacceptable.

Then this instance,

was just a case of them driving too fast for conditions? Ergo, had they been driving slower the truck would have been fine.

However, the Raptor wasn't designed to "go slow" off-road; Hell, most any F-150 can go slow off-road. I see a conflict of interest. If I buy a Raptor, I'm going to be going fast off-road. If I go fast off-road, my frame becomes a fuse-able link. Ford should market the Raptor then as a pavement princess.


Last edited by Avanti 63r1025 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  TuxTshirt on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:53 am

I'm with Avanti on this one.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Smus on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:08 pm

Could it be a case of pushing too far? Example being treating a production truck like a trophy truck and taking a 40 foot jump at 60 mph.

I would assume small jumps at high speed wouldn't do damage, hell in some of the tests I've seen they do exactly that with no Ill effects.

I just can't get over the look of the Ram runner. I do not care for the front end look, it reminds me of things I've seen in my old college town and what hack jobs were done to some trucks to make them offrroad ready. Just appears there's a front grill guard and a skid plate and they called it a day. The Raptor looks the part IMO...not like it was an afterthought.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:11 pm

Smus wrote:Could it be a case of pushing too far? Example being treating a production truck like a trophy truck and taking a 40 foot jump at 60 mph. …
It might be, though again even if it is a user pushing the factory goods too far, to me the frame shouldn't be the weak link in the system. Make the weak point the upper shock/spring mount, the lower control arm, any part prior to the shock waves reaching the frame.

A frame bends and though it becomes weaker in the bent location, it's repairable. Ask the Los Angeles police department how many frames they've straightened on their Crown Vic. fleet. When a frame breaks that's pretty much all she wrote and the vehicle becomes more tempting for insurance companies to write-off.
Smus wrote:I just can't get over the look of the Ram runner. I do not care for the front end look, it reminds me of things I've seen in my old college town and what hack jobs were done to some trucks to make them offrroad ready. Just appears there's a front grill guard and a skid plate and they called it a day. The Raptor looks the part IMO...not like it was an afterthought.
I have a friend who used to have a '77 Chevrolet CK-5 and he modified the Hell out of it. The truck was in a magazine once though I don't recall which one. He rock crawled with it. He cut the bed and installed a bar to mount the upper rear suspension components. He was all about the Rubicon, driving the off-road trails at Pismo Beach, etc.

The Ram Runner is a truck that looks ready to be further cut up and have those modifications done. The Raptor looks too "factory-priss" to cut up.

It's a shame Studebaker went down. I wouldn't "hack-n-slash" a Studebaker today though the '62 Champ pick up would be my off-road truck of choice if the company were still around. I just like the way the Champ looks. Studebaker went with Dana, so Champ has a pair of 44's and any Studebaker V8 would fit in that engine bay, carburetor bonnet and Paxton blower included.
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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Sorta05 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:44 pm

Avanti 63r1025 wrote:So the frame was designed to be the "fusible link" in the system? Wow! That's not a cheap fuse. It might just be me, but the frame as the designed breaking point is unacceptable.

Depending on what you make the fuse-able link depends on how incapacitated the truck becomes. A bent frame in this case means you keep going. If it's the suspension you could potentially keep going too, depends on what you make it though. I've either watched a video or read a response from Ford on this and their argument made a ton of sense.

As far as driving it fast... every car has limits even the baja trucks/buggies can be broken if you push them past the limit.

Maybe I'm a closet Ford guy but no doubt for me the Ford is what I would get. Given I haven't driven either of these trucks that doesn't really mean anything. But I still maintain the trans constantly shifting in the dodge would drive me insane.
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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Simcik on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:48 pm

It doesn't constantly shift if you put it in the manual mode...
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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Sorta05 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:21 pm

Simcik wrote:It doesn't constantly shift if you put it in the manual mode...

In the video he says he does put it in the manual mode and it still does it... I haven't driven it so I'm just going off what I saw in the video.

At any rate awesome that you can buy a factory truck and go off road like this!!!
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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Ex US Squid on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:18 pm

The humorous part about the bending frame problem here isnt that the Raptor does it so much as this has been a Ford problem forever! Ive seen so many times at the yearly Oregon Mud Jam a Ford with the bed creaked up cause the truck was flexing beyond the frames limit and this has been in SLOW mudding conditions. So it doesnt surprise me that the Raptor also has this issue. Also theres no excuse for marketing a truck thats the ultimate off road machine that cant actually go off road that fast. Kore has always had the mantra that you could jump their high end suspensions (like the one on the Ram Runner) level at 80-90mph 4-5ft in the air and the suspension will never bottom out. I prefer the Ram Runner just for the KORE kit. These guys dont mess around.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Simcik on Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:22 pm

Did someone say ultimate off-road truck?



Or did you mean off-road vehicle, in general?

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Sorta05 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:35 pm

Enjoy!

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  StalkerStang on Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:50 pm

I'm with Sorta.

Bottom line. Its a production truck, not a race truck.

To me its no different than buying a high performance car. ZR1 or GT500, both fast as hell, handle well, brake well, but in the end, its not a race car and if you treat it that way, prepare for things to break.

That is the nature of pushing a vehicle to its limits. A production vehicle is not intended for serious abuse/racing.

As far as bending frames and what not being a Ford problem, I could easily say that about Dodge or Chevy. My uncle's cousin's best friend's squeeze said that her brother's Dodge never starts in Utah. Now all of the sudden, Dodge's don't start in Utah. Lame.....

Raptor vs. Runner, well I'll always go Ford no matter what, but there are several Raptors at the Ford dealerships out here, and I've never seen a Ram-Runner anywhere. Plus I don't like the idea of a 70K Dodge Ram off road truck that you have to get built. If thats the case, I'm not buying a brand new truck and throwing a Mopar kit on it to do some off-roading, I'll have the fucker built to MY needs.

Oh yeah Sim, there was a Jeep dealer right by us when I worked at Land Rover, and sorry to say, the Jeeps couldn't make it through the Land Rover test course that even the bottom of the line Land Rovers could make.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  TuxTshirt on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:54 pm

While we're on "he said, she said" and Land Rover. We had a used Land Rover come through our shop that wouldn't start after the detail department cleaned under the hood. All other vehicles we do that to have no problem. Come to find out they didn't use weatherpack connectors so the electrical system failed. I don't care what kind of course you have, if the vehicle won't run, it won't make it. I'd like to see this "course" that Land Rover made it through. Did they test a Rubicon? I'd bet a weeks pay a Rubicon would smoke any Land Rover. And no, I'm not a fanboy, but Rubicons are no joke.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  TuxTshirt on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:00 pm



Eat your heart out Land Rover. Is there even a Land Rover that can match the approach angles or clearance of a stock Rubicon? Or any that have factory disconnecting sway bars and axle lockers? Or hill descent control?


Last edited by TuxTshirt on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Simcik on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:06 pm

Haha, that's funny, Stalker. Did they test a 2wd? Or could the LR peeps not drive a stick?

The Rubys are no joke. I'd like to see a LR tackle the same paths up the rubicon trail without breaking that EVERY Jeep Rubicon can right out of the box.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  TuxTshirt on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:17 pm




Not too shabby.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  StalkerStang on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:36 am

Tux, Sim, if we are talking quality, reliability, etc. yeah Land Rovers are a joke, I first hand experienced that stuff, none of them work properly.

But.... Off road capability I do not question, when they do run.

And yes Tux, Downhill decent is standard on all new LR's. Even the Range Rover soccer mom mobiles have them. Ever heard of the Defender 90?



I unfortunetly can't find the info on the articulation course, if I do I will post it. Every new LR can go through it, its varied angles of turning banks and uphill/downhill, mogeles, etc.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:42 am

Ah, thanks Tux. That last video explained why my CK-5 friend calls Independent Front Suspension, inferior fucking shit; it's due to the flex angle. Needless to say, he loves solid axle equipped off-road vehicles.

I am still disappointed that the Raptor's frame breaks under those circumstances. In the video, the rut that broke the frame wasn't very bad. It would be easy for someone else (including advertising executives filming a commercial) to hit the same type of rut and break the vehicle's frame. An off-road vehicle that's at risk of breaking when driving it as you've seen advertised isn't much of an off-road vehicle.

SVT Ford Raptor, Ford's new fast street truck to replace the Lightning!
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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  TuxTshirt on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:49 am

Yeah, Stalker, that Land Rover video is impressive. But you still didn't answer my question. Did they test a Rubicon? No, not all Jeeps are created equal.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  StalkerStang on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:02 am

I couldn't tell you Tux, I am not a Jeep fan myself (that doesn't mean I'm a LR fan though) so I don't know.

I just have personally rode in a 100K Range Rover full size that you see all the celebrities and gangsters driving around, and it made it over that course that has 35 deg. opposite banked turns, where you are looking at the ground out the passenger side window to the right as the vehicle is turning left and it not even feel like its going to roll over.

They have the decent control, air suspension that lowers and raises it from stock ride height, etc. They look decieving.

But, they are broken more than anything, even some of the ones I PDI'd had problems.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  TuxTshirt on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:10 am

I just checked out the Defender 90. I guess I lost a weeks pay. I'll mail you $5. Laughing I'd say they go toe to toe. What's one of those cost?

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  StalkerStang on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:02 am

Defenders are rediculous.

They didn't offer them in the states for a while so when they do show up, even the early-mid 90's ones will sell for 30K. Its wierd too because half the time, they are leaking everywhere and all the plastic interior shit doesn't work.

They also had Defender 110's.

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Re: Raptor or Ram runner?

Post  Sorta05 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:50 am

StalkerStang wrote:Defenders are rediculous.

Its wierd too because half the time, they are leaking everywhere and all the plastic interior shit doesn't work.

They also had Defender 110's.

So basically your saying they're exactly the same as a jeep?


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