Here is some real Drag Racing vids so T10 knows how drag cars hook

All this from the NMCA event at Speedworld today, not as busy as Saturday, still cool though.



Here are some pictures.....


















I couldn't find the Mustang later, but it went 6.49@230+ on this run....


Yeah there is a shit ton of media here....

Definitely some awesome machinery. Jets need assistance from steam power though if you like feeling the thrust in the small of your back, getting launched off a carrier deck and pure built drag race cars are two things to experience.



I would love to ride the RIO seat in a catapulted jet. That, and experiencing the F-15 as it points its nose 65° from the horizontal, pours in the afterburners and starts to pull away from earth's gravity. Got to put those on the bucket list!

So yeah. In summary, things can get up and go faster than current Forza physics allow.

Its a shame that the Need for Speed series did a better job on drag racing than the T10 guys did on Forza

Avanti 63r1025 wrote:Definitely some awesome machinery. Jets need assistance from steam power though if you like feeling the thrust in the small of your back, getting launched off a carrier deck and pure built drag race cars are two things to experience.

Screw that, and forget the bucket list. Control your life (or the end of it) and get launched off an aircraft carrier IN a drag race car...

I hate to admit it but the forza physics accurately depict my experiences at the drag strip... lots and lots of wheel spin

Haha. Did you drive through the water box with street tires???

LOL SIM hahahahah! Reminds me of my buddies first few trips down the strip in his 1000ftlbs Cummins 06 Ram. Runs low 13s in 4hi but I had to tell him to stop driving through the water box cause its pointless. He was doing 4 wheel burnouts to the 60 foot!

I did it for show when I raced my truck ('97 Ram, 318, 225hp, 235tq, True Dual exhaust and high flow air filter, otherwise, bone-stock.) in the ET Drags in HS. When your ET is 17.1s, wheel spin is not a concern. Even with wet tires... But yeah, lots of more powerful cars would spin after running through the box - even if they did a nice burn out...

Yea theres no need in a 8000lb truck. I suggested driving around the box and then backing the rears into the water and doing a 2wd burnout and dry hop just to see if it would launch any better once back in 4hi but made no difference on 60ft or E.T.s..... Always looks cool to see a set of 35s boiling in smoke though!

I've ran several stangs at the track, my experience has been to not touch the water in the box if you are on street tires. Just do a quick dry spin to clean them off.

If you are on DR's or full slicks, then yes do a burnout, 2nd gear if you can/car has enough balls to do it. No John force burnouts, just enough to see some smoke coming forward. And don't do a test launch on your way to stage, you will kill your bite.

T10 still sucks for drag racing.

StalkerStang wrote:I've ran several stangs at the track, my experience has been to not touch the water in the box if you are on street tires. Just do a quick dry spin to clean them off.

If you are on DR's or full slicks, then yes do a burnout, 2nd gear if you can/car has enough balls to do it. No John force burnouts, just enough to see some smoke coming forward. And don't do a test launch on your way to stage, you will kill your bite.

T10 still sucks for drag racing.

I've tried running with and without a burnout. I have DR's on the TA and up until this week (hopefully this friday) OEM Runcraps on the Z. I went earlier this year but I think the track prep was crap and the OEM's were 4 years old at that point and haven't hooked this whole year on the street in the Z (now showing chord after 9600 miles, hence why I'm getting new tires). Plus it was kind of cold, so with all that I ended up spinning well into 2nd (had to pedal) and even some in 3rd. Never got into 4th. Ranger (youtube the name) ran a high 10 in a stock Z with OEM tires and says the same as you did Stalker about doing a burn out, just enough to see smoke then your good. I do the same for my DR's too. I've never been able to do a sub 2 second 60' time. My best ET's are with a 2.1 and I'm lucky to see that.

On that cold day earlier this year I ran a 12.6 at 120mph... and with my TA with drag radials I ran 13.2 @ 109... so yeah lots of wheel spin. I once did a private track day when I lived in So Cal at the Bakersfield track and on my first run with DR's I dropped the clutch to fast at about 3k and snapped my driveshaft in half at the weld on the transmission end. Probably the only time I've hooked and I broke...

And I never drive through the box, that's bad track etiquette with street tires. I always go around it and back in.

So sorry to cry wolf but a stock Z running tens on streets is a see it to believe it(in person to see where the NOS kit is) kinda time there. But youre right about going around the waterbox in streets to keep from dragging junk up onto to prep area in between the treads. Some smaller tracks you cant though cause theres no room to do it.... Kearney, NE has a small 1/4 in the middle of corn fields and the guard rails go past the waterbox so you have no choice but to drive through it.

It's rare, conditions (both atmospheric and the asphalt) have to be correct, and the driver has to be very good, though a 10.9xx 1/4 mile time for a ZO6 is attainable.

Scroll to near bottom because the thread initially "ends" in September of '05, before any C6 ZO6's were publicly on the road. I have a hunch users prior to the 5 year, 3 day thread bump were discussing C5 ZO6.

Highlighting 1st, 2nd, and 4th places from the that list:
4th- Dr.Ron rolled off a 1.68 60' and trapped in the 122's at 11.242 seconds.
2nd- Ranger rolled off a 1.76 60' and trapped in the 127's at 11.138 seconds.
1st- Jamie Furman rolled off a 1.77 60' and trapped in the 128's at 10.981 seconds.
I only highlighted 4th for his 60' time.

Interesting note- there are more '06 model year cars than other model years. Maybe the '06 car had something Bowling Green is not telling? Maybe more people had more money in their savings accounts, circa September '05? I don't know though there could be something different about '06.

Tying this into Forza Motorsport 4* good luck getting the C6 ZO6 to attain a 1.68 second 60' time. Then, if you manage to do so, good luck finding some way to prove you did! No track markings, no laser traps, no time sheet, etc.

Ex US Squid wrote:So sorry to cry wolf but a stock Z running tens on streets is a see it to believe it(in person to see where the NOS kit is) kinda time there. But youre right about going around the waterbox in streets to keep from dragging junk up onto to prep area in between the treads. Some smaller tracks you cant though cause theres no room to do it.... Kearney, NE has a small 1/4 in the middle of corn fields and the guard rails go past the waterbox so you have no choice but to drive through it.

With street tires it is hard to believe but at least one person has done it (Avanti found him) and with drag radials several have gotten 10's. The cars definitely have the trap speed for 10's. I just absolutely suck at launching a manual...

AvantI:
The drag racing portion of Forza is absolutely terrible! I can't even get a 13 second pass in a 4th gen F-body that's been modded. 4th gen's run 12's stock with an M6, and easily 13's (which even I've done). I would say maybe they just didn't model the car right since they were underrated but it's really all rwd cars. I think it's interesting that drag racing favors AWD cars and road racing favors rwd cars.

Avanti 63r1025 wrote:
Interesting note- there are more '06 model year cars than other model years. Maybe the '06 car had something Bowling Green is not telling? Maybe more people had more money in their savings accounts, circa September '05? I don't know though there could be something different about '06.

Lots of folks on the forum swear the 06's are faster then any other model year. I'm not sure there is any data to back it up though. They claim it had a more aggressive tune and the car was lighter then the later model years. The later years are heavier due to better insulation and heavier upgraded components (T6060 from the ZR1 etc). i know my car weighed in at a danty 3100 lbs and it's an 08. Sales have fallen off drastically since 08. The Z06 only sold strong the first 3 model years then the GS came out and all the grandpa's opted for the automatic vette's with basically the Z body kit. They only sell maybe 500 Z's a year now, if even that for the last model year of the C6.

Sorta05 wrote:Avanti:
… I would say maybe they just didn't model the car right since they were underrated but it's really all rwd cars. I think it's interesting that drag racing favors AWD cars and road racing favors RWD cars.

I think much of the errant dynamics have to do with how the transmission and engine interact, and this interaction occurs in every car. Turn 10 puts modeled cars on a dynamometer, so the car's power curves are accurate. Turn 10 uses Pirelli for tire data and before Forza 4 they had data from the S.A.E., Goodyear, Toyo, and other companies. I don't see tires being the issue.

The path between the engine and the tires is the next logical place to look. I have heard about racers mapping the clutch to a trigger and then connecting to the controller a gauge which registers pressure. With this gauge and repeated tests these racers can give ideal threshold clutch and accelerator inputs. For those of us who don't ride the clutch our options are to either bog to idle speed or roast the tires.

I have a clutch and it doesn't help. That being said, I suck at launching in the real world so I doubt it would be any different in the virtual world. lol

No, the issue is the ground. They simply have not taken into consideration just how sticky the drag strips can be. Seriously - it's that simple. If I take my Sebring to a red light, I can chirp the tires on launch. No way in hell that would happen at the strip.

Sim that's most likely true with slicks but with drag radials and street tires the strip usually feels much slicker then the street. Could be it's that way for me because I"m going on test and tune days though...

I would hope Turn 10 is aware of information such as contained in this chart, especially since their partner, Playground Games is introducing wet conditions in Forza: Horizon.

If dry asphalt can have grip coefficients from 0.35 to 1.20, and dry cement can have grip coefficients from 0.50 to 1.20, where would a drag strip fall on those lines? My presumption would be toward the higher end of the spectrum.

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I liked when the R/C guys would hold races in the back parking lot at the go-kart track I worked. They'd pour root beer all over the lot the day before and let it dry and be sticky for the next day's race. After they packed up and went home, we'd drive karts out there and really tear up some lateral-Gs.

Anything over 1.2 is no longer friction but adhesion. I still remember my dynamics professor explicitly saying it's not the same as a coefficient of friction and that we weren't covering it in the class. But yeah sticky tires means they have adhesion which gives them the ability to do more then 1.0. And I would hope that the Forza folks understand that too. The demo for horizons is supposed to be out tomorrow so maybe we'll find out then.

I doubt they modeled adhesion, which is probably why the drag tracks are slick...

I can't say if its the track or the tires, it could be that the drag slicks are not modeled correctly.

I have ran many cars down a few drag strips, and I have flat hooked at full throttle in a fox body that does mid 12's on ET streets. But in my 01 V6 that barely has 200 HP and runs low 15's, I have spun the shit out of street tires well into 2nd gear on the same track.

VHT is sticky shit though, take your shoes off when walking on it.

I do use the water box when I run stickies, but I only drive through it if I have front runners on.