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WARNING: Political Discussion

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WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Simcik on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:28 am

Okay, I know this could get bad quickly, so please try not to let that happen...

I will refrain from telling you where I stand, though if you'd like to know, you may PM me.

I would ask all of you, however, that if you are not already, pay attention to what is going on in the world today. Get your news from multiple, reputible sources, do your own fact checking, and don't just blow this stuff off.

The first Presidential Debate is tomorrow night - I really hope all of you watch it, take notes, and then research what you heard to see where you stand. Words only mean so much, no matter who says them...
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Remaggib on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:35 pm

Following all this crap is too hard, and I don't care that much. No matter who is in power I'm getting screwed against my will by the government. I just ask my wife for the cliff notes version (she just got her bachelors in political science) and go from there. And though I'm told my vote makes a difference, I've never seen it count... Just me though.
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  StalkerStang on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:21 pm

I'm close to the same boat as Rem.

I think we're fucked either way. The political candidates that at least show a glimmer of hope or at least appear somewhat genuine get burried in political BS and shunned by the media to the point that they have no chance of running for presidency.

This leaves us with 2 evil candidates that aren't really chosen by the people. Of the the two "choices" we have, I don't think Obama should have control of the office anymore. That guy was/is associated with some scary people with very anti-colonialism views to the point that they consider America and our way of life a threat.

But I really don't trust Romney either.

And to come back to what I really think.... I believe all of our government "elections" and what not are fixed from the start.

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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Josh on ze bass on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Register to vote. Vote 3rd party. Call it a day knowing you didn't vote for a Douche bag or a Turd Sandwich

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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Simcik on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:58 pm

I hear you all, I really do... But I think that you are all wrong in your approach to what you really want.

Rem, you find it too complicated. Too hard to follow, too laborious, and you've got a family to take care of, so you simply sit it out as you don't want to vote for someone who don't know anything about. Well, the problem is, there are lots of idiots out there who will vote for someone simply because of the little R or D next to their name. It is sad just how many people have no idea where the person they just voted for stands on even a single issue... If you do not participate and do not vote, you make that idiot that much more powerful. You cannot ever have a chance to get the government off your back and out of your life if you do not participate in it. When you make your voice heard, you will have a better chance of seeing the changes you want brought about.

Stalker, I agree with you about a lesser of two evils, though in this case it is a far lesser of two evils, which makes it easier. Personally, I supported Perry. He is a great, genuine guy. He has done very, very well for us here in Texas, but he did horrible in the debates. Why, I am not sure. He is usually a great speaker... Anyway, eventhough Romney is not ideal, his views and ideals are far closer to mine than Obama's. Makes pulling the lever for him pretty easy to me. And you are completely right about Obama's frightening associations. Your friends say alot about you, and his friends are some pretty evil people. Elections aren't fixed, far from it in fact, but people (or "sheeople" as I call them) are too easily swayed by gosip and slanderous stories. Unfrotunately, people have become lazy. They do not verify what they hear or see, because at one point in time, those who presented news did so with integrity, such is not always the case these days, and many people fall for this. The Election is not fixed. People still vote and choose their leaders, but their choices are often based on flawed or misguided perceptions. The only way to stop this is to educate people, to talk with them. Show them facts, break them down to a personal level of impact, and relate them to the person's own life so that they can see the truth for themselves.

And Josh, you may be doing the most damage. Third Party sounds like a good idea - I don't like big governement, I don't like the choices too much, so I'll just vote for this other guy because I am unhappy. Well, you've effectively given another vote to the guy furtherst from your candidate. (Typically in this case, that means the Democratic nominee, as Third Party candidates typically are closer to Republicans than Democrats and steal more votes from them.) The key is not to simply "not vote for the main party" choice as a protest, but rather vote to nominate candidates that meet your requirements for the main party. Don't fall into the "all, or nothing" trap you've setup for yourself. You can much more easily bring about the change you want by voting for the major party candidate closest to your beliefs in the main election, then holding their feet to the fire or supporting a candidate even closer to your views in the next primary. Take a little step everytime. People don't like change - that is a proven fact that we all seen in our lives - so asking for the stars, the moon, and the sun all at one time will overwhelm most people. Rather, ask for telescope... Once you have your telescope, the moon & stars won't seem so far away. Rather than voting for a third party candidate out of spite, and walking around for the next 4 years saying "don't blame me, I didn't vote for the guy who's in charge," stand up and say I voted for the person who was closest to my beliefs at the time, but next time we can do better. It is far better to live under someone who shares some (but not all) of your views than someone who shares none of them.

Before you abstain, before you throw your vote away, please take time to consider that no matter whether you yourself are to blame, you still have to live under whoever is elected and you still have to deal with the consequences. If you are willing to risk the candidate furthest from your views winning the election and running the county, then go ahead. BUT IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO RISK THAT, vote instead for the candidate that is most likely to have a chance to win and who shares more of your views than the other guy. If we all do this, we will be able to bring about the change we want. It may take some time, but it can be done in this way.
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Josh on ze bass on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:43 am

<pours more gasoline over the fire> All the Presidents on Mount Rushmore were 3rd party candidates. Vote Gary Johnson.

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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Simcik on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:34 am

Josh on ze bass wrote:<pours more gasoline over the fire> All the Presidents on Mount Rushmore were 3rd party candidates. Vote Gary Johnson.

That's only true if you look compare them to today's political parties. During their time, not so much...
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Simcik on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:36 am

Simple question: Would you rather vote for Gary Johnson and live under Obama, or vote for and live under Romney???


(FYI, I like Gary, but I want Obama out...)
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  StalkerStang on Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:17 am

I hear you Sim, I think many people are uneducated and just follow what they hear.

But its hard for me to pick something that doesn't seem like a smart choice.

A. Bash yourself in the face with a hammer as hard as you can
B. Shoot rusty nails through your foot with a nail gun multiple times
C. Stab yourself in the stomach with this knife found at a murder scene

What do you pick? Well, they all hurt, they all may lead to infection, organ failure, or death, one may cause brain damage, and I'm sure you can think of other outcomes.

Pick B because its possibly less harmfull than the others?

Thats what today's elections seem like to me.

I know someone out here in AZ that I would call extreme in their veiws, he has crazy theories and its sometimes too much..... but ironically enough, as time goes on and more things happen to this country and its people, his ideas and solutions don't sound so far out there.

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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Simcik on Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:25 am

Sheriff Joe???
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  maxximilllion on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:33 am

Let's look behind the curtain at the people who has been hired by the sitting President:

Ed Montgomery – Auto recovery Czar
Radical anti-business black activist. Affirmative Action and Job Preference for blacks.

Richard Holbrooke – Afghanistan Czar (Deceased)
Ultra liberal anti-gun former Governor Of New Mexico. Wanted to dissolve the 2nd Amendment.

Jeffrey Crowley – AIDS Czar
Radical Homosexual, Gay Rights activist. Believes in Gay Marriage and a Special Status for homosexuals only, including complete free health care for gays.

Alan Bersin – Border Czar
The former failed superintendent of San Diego. Ultra-Liberal. Wants to keep borders open to illegals without interference from the Federal government.

David J. Hayes – California Water Czar
Senior Fellow of radical environmentalist group “Progress Policy”. No training or experience in water management whatsoever.

Ron Bloom – Car Czar
Auto Union worker. Anti- business & anti- nuclear. Has worked hard to force US auto makers out of business. Sits on the Board of Chrysler which is now Union-owned, huh?

Dennis Ross – Central Region Czar Believes US policy is the cause of war in the Middle East. Also an Anti-gun activist.

Lynn Rosenthal – Domestic Violence Czar
Director of the National Network to End Domestic Violence. Vicious anti-male feminist.

Gil Kerlikowske – Drug Czar
Devoted lobbyist for every restrictive gun law proposal, former Chief of Police in liberal Seattle WA. Believes no American should own a firearm.

Paul Volcker – Economic Czar
Former head of the Federal Reserve under Jimmy Carter when US economy nearly failed. Obama-appointed head of the Economic Recovery Advisory Board which engineered the Obama economic disaster to US economy. Member of anti-business “Progressive Policy” organization, very dangerous dude.

Carol Browner – Energy and Environment Czar
Political Radical. Former head of the EPA – known for anti-business activism. Strong anti-gun ownership.

Joshua DuBois – Faith-Based Czar
Political Black activist. Degree in Black Nationalism. Anti-gun ownership lobbyist.

Cameron Davis – Great Lakes Czar
Chicago radical anti-business environmentalist. Former ACORN Board member and once blamed George W. Bush for “Poisoning the water that minorities have to drink.”

Van Jones – Green Jobs Czar (resigned)
Black activist racist with strong anti-white views. Member of American Communist Party and San Francisco Communist Party. Said George Bush caused the 9-11 attacks and wanted Bush investigated by the World Court for war crimes

Daniel Fried – Guantanamo Closure Czar
Human Rights activist for Foreign Terrorists. Believes America has caused the Global War on Terrorism. Believes terrorists have rights above and beyond Americans. Very scary dude #2.

Nancy-Ann DeParle – Health Czar
Former head of Medicare / Medicaid. Strong proponent of Healthcare Rationing or Death Panels

Vivek Kundra – Information Czar
Born in New Delhi, India. Controls all public information, including labels and news releases. Monitors all private Internet emails.

Todd Stern – International Climate Czar
Anti-business former White House Chief of Staff. Strong supporter of the Kyoto Accord; pushing hard for Cap and Trade. Blames US business for Global warming. Anti- US business prosperity.

Dennis Blair – Intelligence Czar
Retired US Navy. Stopped US guided missile program he described as “provocative”. Chair of ultra-Liberal “Council on Foreign Relations”. Very scary dude #3

George Mitchell – Mideast Peace Czar
Fmr. Sen from Maine Left wing radical. Has said Israel should be split up into “2 or 3 ” smaller more manageable plots”. (God forbid) A true Anti-nuclear anti-gun & pro homosexual “special rights” advocate.

Kenneth Feinberg – Pay Czar
Chief of Staff to Ted Kennedy. Lawyer who got rich off the 9-11 victims payoffs

Cass Sunstein – Regulatory Czar
Liberal activist judge who believes free speech needs to be limited for the “common good”; essentially against the 1st Amendment. Has ruled against personal freedoms many times on private gun ownership and right to free speech cases. Very Very Scary Dude!!

John Holdren – Science Czar
Fierce ideological environmentalist, Sierra Club anti-business activist. Claims US business has caused world poverty.

Earl Devaney – Stimulus Accountability Czar
Spent career trying to take guns away from American citizens. Believes in Open Borders to Mexico. Author of statement blaming US gun stores for drug war in Mexico

J. Scott Gration – Sudan Czar
Native of Democratic Republic of Congo . Believes US does little to help Third World countries. Council of foreign relations, asking for higher US taxes to support United Nations

Herb Allison – TARP Czar Fannie Mae CEO responsible for the US recession by using real estate mortgages to back up the US stock market. Caused millions of people to lose their life savings.

John Brennan – Terrorism Czar
Anti CIA activist. Gay Activist demanding Gay education for K-12. No training in diplomatic or gov. affairs. Believes Open Borders to Mexico and a dialog with terrorists and has suggested Obama disband US military.

Aneesh Chopra – Technology Czar
Worked for the Advisory Board Company, a health care think tank for hospitals. Anti-doctor activist. \ Supports Obama Healthcare Rationing and salaried doctors working exclusively for the Government Healthcare plan.

Adolfo Carrion Jr. – Urban Affairs Czar
Puerto Rico-born Anti-American activist and leftist group member in Latin America. Millionaire “slum lord” of Bronx, NY. Wants higher taxes on middle class to pay for minority housing and healthcare.

Ashton Carter – Weapons Czar
Leftist. Wants all private weapons in US destroyed. Supports UN ban on firearms ownership in America.

Gary Samore – WMD Policy Czar
Former US Communist. Wants US to destroy all WMD unilaterally as a show of good faith.

These are just some of the people who have President Obama's ear, everyday, on all affairs at home and abroad. This list will grow with more and more radicals if elected for a second term.

Oh I forgot Timothy Geithner, Secretary of the Treasury, Nuf Said!
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Remaggib on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:25 am

Let's bring back Clinton, have him fix the economy again, and give him all the fat women he wants.
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Simcik on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:41 am

Let's bring back Reagan, or Lincoln, or George Washington...
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Remaggib on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:53 am

Yeah, let's let Lincoln finish out his term...
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  maxximilllion on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:28 am

Reagan, Yes!! Clinton, oh hell no! The only thing he fixed was the design on that skank's dress.

I love the youths of America expressing interest in the political position of this country, especially in this time of miss-direction and poor guidance. IMO.
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Ex US Squid on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:12 am

So I just signed on and its way to freakin early to do this much heavy reading (Ive yet to read anybodys responses yet) but I feel that the debates are less important these days, although I may be giving candidates from decades past too much benefit of the doubt just because I was never there.

For me it is more important to follow a candidate and his/her track record and the morals and standards that each one lives by. This can be really hard because many many MANY politicians will be exposed for one thing or another that proves to be exactly or largely against the rhetoric they preach in public. But by in large I feel that no candidate, Red or Blue, can be perfect or anywhere close to it.

Still we have to do exactly what Sim has said and, Im sure many of us have heard at one point or another Tux and myself discussing politics and his love of trolling and schooling the ignorant on YouTube Razz ..... But yes we definitely have to do intelligent fact checking before we make any stand on which side of the fence we trust more.

I for one though wont argue with any of you guys on this subject..... Shit it feels weird stating I wont argue...... I hope that we all will adopt this just to keep the peace. If someone suggests a different philosophy we simply respond that we disagree or say nothing rather than go after them like that ugly man Rachel Maddow with a bunch of cheap shots. It just creates tension and we all know that by this time your opinion will most likely not change and its not going to because one of us argues you about it.

Sorry for the additional novel length rant but this time its a worthy subject. The only thing I can urge is that we all make well informed stances because this is, as we all know right now first hand, a very unstable time in our country. Ive never been nervous about the future before but the last few years I have grown more and more stressed over the dwindling faith I have for who is leading our nation. For our generation this will be the one election that in the future, 2-3 decades from now, that we all will look back and admit that this election was right or wrong for the direction our nation needed to go in. The scariest part is how many folks out there that are ignorant (by choice or not I cant tell) to this extreme importance as if they are a herd of Ostriches burying their heads in the sand.

The Worst Thing We Can Do Is Trust A Mainstream Media Opinion As Fact Without FIRST Checking The Source!!!

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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Simcik on Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:37 am

Ex US Squid wrote:...that ugly man Rachel Maddow...

maxximilllion wrote:Very Odd?!?


Shocked


????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

affraid

Otherwise, DITTO!

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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Ex US Squid on Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:17 pm

See what happens when I shave....errrrrrrr........ NOTHING!...... wait, What?...... I dont get it.....

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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  TuxTshirt on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:09 am

I am very passionate this election because I think the direction of this country (economically, and especially socially) is at stake. I've done lots of homework recently and agree mostly with Sim, Squid, and Maxx. Obama is dangerous for this country, in mine and many people's opinions. The majority of the media is slanted left and have been protecting him for 4 years. The last month has really exposed how weak he is as a leader. I think the debate was a crystal clear example of how a president should handle himself. The media was not there to protect him this time. You may not agree with everything Romney says, but his direction is clear, regardless of how the left paints him.

No offense Josh, but Sim is right. Independent votes are a virtual waste. Your right to vote Independent should be yours, however an Independent simply can't win. For those of you that think your vote is a waste, understand that our government structure is one of the reasons we became arguably the greatest country on the planet. Nations (including ours) have gone to war, and many have died fighting for the privelages we take for granted, and voting is one of them. I am open to futher debate with all of you. I have been debating with people online for weeks now, and understand that I don't take it personally, nor will I attack anyone. Let's take our country back!

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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Simcik on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:58 am

Just gotta say, this is the BEST Politcal Discussion thread I have ever been involved in. You guys are awesome at refraining from personal attacks. Let's keep this up. Feel free to disagree, but continue to keep it clean...

BTW, as Tux said, the debate showed the difference in a leader and figure head. Romney controlled the debate from start to finish. He would not let skewed facts slip by un-rebuted, and he didn't fall into an any rhetorical traps. I liked that. Obama looked annoyed, like he didn't want to be there, and Romney acted like he had been waiting for this opportunity for a long time. (Which he probably had...)

1 Month + 1 Day 'til Election Day.

And Tux, keep workin' hard - we need PA to go back in the Red column!!! Just remind people where Obama stands on "Big Coal"...
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  TuxTshirt on Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:55 pm

Oh trust me Sim, I have been hard at work in my area. I have been vocal about the current situation and am doing my best to report current events to people that would just as soon ignore it. I truly believe there's a chance of turning PA red and that's my hope. Philadelphia and Pittsburgh will make it tough, but we just have to keep our heads up. I have been doing my homework and staying bold. It saddens me when I talk to people (especially parents) who would rather ignore the gravity of our current situation, as opposed to taking action.

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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Simcik on Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:42 pm

Ugh, I know what you mean. It is very disheartening...
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Remaggib on Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:16 pm

I never bothered to learn red from blue, donkey from elephant, left from right (politically). All I know is that politics is very confusing and hard to keep up with, and it's always the lesser of two evils that you end up voting for. I rely on my wife to dumb down the political side, and give me a cliff notes version of each person. At least this time democrat and republican I can refer to as black and white. Albeit loosely, but still.
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:13 pm

I have a larger post to add later though I wanted to answer Rem.

Democrats are jackasses and Republicans are elephants.

Red & Blue have flip-flopped. There were times when TV news companies would use the red color for the incumbent party and the blue color for the challenging party. One situation I feel is ironic/iconic was between Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford. As Carter won states they'd illuminate red. As Ford won states they'd illuminate blue. (Ford = blue. Is it an oval state? Ha!) Unless otherwise noted on maps, today I think we're at red - Republican, blue - Democrat.

Left - Liberal - Democrat.
Right - Conservative - Republican.


Last edited by Avanti 63r1025 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

Post  StalkerStang on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:15 pm

It all sounds great to hear what the structure is supposed to do, and what supposed rights we have. My grandfather served in the Army, and he was also a Secret Service agent, so I appreciate people that fight for us.

But I find it very hard to have faith in our leaders and the government officials that are supposed to represent us.

Are the candidates for Presidency not chosen by their respective parties? How do we as the people factor in to those decisions?

It seems between primaries; open/closed , and the caucus, its more like there are too many restrictions that force you to choose from whats presented to you, instead of the person you believe will do the most for the country regardless of the party you may or may not be registered to.


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Re: WARNING: Political Discussion

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