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StalkerStang
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dillonp87
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Post  dillonp87 Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:40 pm

Hey all, I didn't see a place to post introductions, so I figured this would be the place to do it. I found this forum because myself and a group of others (5-10 people usually) in the NASA Rocky Mountain region all have "American Iron" builds that we race in Forza in the off season. Most of us are, or have been, real racers with NASA. Our builds are not as strict or as official as yours, but that can be easily changed. So I can't speak for the rest, but I for one am very interested in building and racing both an AI and AIX car to your specifications. I already have a bunch that are all liveried up (with NASA/AI decals, we had no idea you guys existed but we used your stickers!) I would just have to build them to the rules. So I have some questions (and suggestions), if anyone is alive here to listen.

First, are there any plans for a "season 2"? If so, will there be any differences compared to what's posted for season 1?

Second, do you ever race outside of the official races? It's unfortunate, but if you guys are racing at 9PM EST on a Friday night, I wouldn't be able to make that, and I doubt the rest of our group would either. That's 7PM out here, and being that it's Friday, I usually have dinner plans with my family. No offense, but I can't understand why you'd pick Friday...a week night, or even a Saturday night (which is when we usually race), is far more practical and would attract far more racers. Similarly, I personally am not very interested in an hour-long race. I'd much rather participate in several 20-30 minute sprint races, or possibly even less. Do you guys ever do that just for fun?

Third, why is traction control banned? Has there been any consideration to change that rule? I understand that it's against the rules in the real world, but this isn't the real world. In my experience, racing with high-power cars like AIX is much more enjoyable with TCS on (but NOT stability control). Not all of us can afford expensive simulator setups...I myself use an XBOX wheel, and I find it doesn't provide anywhere near the level of control or feedback necessary to keep from lighting up the tires when you start building to the level of AIX. Some of our group even use controllers. I just don't see the harm in allowing TCS...it's not like it gives an unfair advantage if everyone can use it. And you WILL still be in the weeds if you make the wrong mistake.

Last but certainly not least, would anyone be interested in showing me the ropes of how your races work before the next season begins, so to speak? Feel free to add me on XBL, my gamertag is the same as on here. I'm very excited to find other AI/AIX enthusiasts and hope I can get some racing in with you guys.




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Post  Ex US Squid Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:45 pm

Thats awesome Dillon! Yea we definitely have a AI-2 in the works but we also as you probably noticed have several other ideas that range from Pirelli World Challenge GTS, classic 65-early 70s Trans Am, ALMS GT2, and also a Nascar IROC based series all highly fleshed out and ready to go. I worked on the GT2 series, StalkerStang has the Pirelli GTS, Avanti is wanting to run Trans Am and Simcik is working on IROC. Also I have a 50s and a 60s Le Mans series idea Ive worked on....

But I definitely feel that AI-2 is going to happen in there somewhere too! Just a matter of when. Feel free to shoot me a friend req on Live and we can run some laps and see if ya wanted to hop in on the GTS or other series. My gamertag is the same as my forum... Ex US Squid
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Post  StalkerStang Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:15 pm

Welcome to the board, AI is alive, and we are as well, but like Squid said, we are running other series at the same time.

Its possible when AI2 is the next one we do, the rules may be tweaked from last season, we learned that there are cars that flat out haul ass and ones that don't even though they both meet the criteria. Avanti is the man to say whats what though.

I'm down for it when it comes, I will probably stay in AI and try to win the title again!

BTW, race without TCS all the time and I don't think you will go back.
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Post  Simcik Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:58 pm

I probably will stay in AI too - the Neon is a powerhouse in that class, and now with some more seat time under my belt, I think I can give Stalker a run for his money!
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Post  Remaggib Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:48 am

I think we were looking at changing from Friday nights due to lag issues and connectivity issues. I think it was that Friday nights just seemed like a good idea at the time. Either that, or that's the only day everyone could make to start off with?

With TCS, I think Avanti was looking for realism, and if it's banned in real life, it's banned in game. I use a controller and haven't used TCS since Forza 2, when I first started racing with some of these guys, and it was turned off for either a Focus series or the spec Miata series. Either way, TCS being off doesn't really bother me, and that's coming from someone consistently at the back of the field.
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Post  dillonp87 Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:56 pm

All of those sound like great ideas! In addition to AI, our group runs builds based off vintage Trans Am (this is our favorite, boy do I have a lot I could say about this series!), Spec Miata, GTS (mid-power German cars, think early 90s DTM), and Super Unlimited (basically any car built up to a certain PI). Which series are you running now? Rolex? I would love to try that, looks like I can convert my S197 pretty easily Smile Although who knows if it would keep up? I haven't looked at the build specs but I imagine there's a lot of room for disparity given what cars are allowed. It would be sorta pointless to enter the series at this point and I still wouldn't be able to make Friday nights, BUT if you guys will have me, I'd love to join in on some of the pre-qual practice sessions.

I would also love to hear any and all thoughts on what cars are faster than others in your AI/AIX build rules and what's being done to increase parity. Typically what our group did in the past was have our fastest drivers come up with new builds (loosely based on PI#) and compare lap times to the existing cars. If, in real racing, we found a car to be too fast, we just gave it a power reduction. But we didn't have tech inspections...so eventually a certain somebody started cheating and was blowing everyone away on the straights while being incredibly slow in corners. Personally with our build rules I'm fastest in a 4th-gen Camaro, I feel that car handles better than any of the others. But I'm a Ford guy, so my go-to cars are the S197 and SN99 Cobra. However we didn't base our builds off real-life AI/AIX, simply because when we started doing it in Forza 3 we found it was too hard to meet the power/weight requirements and keep things competitive. All of our cars would be considered AIX now Smile

With TCS, I never used it in the past as I thought it was kind of a cop out. And indeed it can be for lower power cars like Miatas, because you need all the speed you can get, and scrubbing speed by sliding is a bad idea. I always keep it turned off for anything but the highest power cars. It's just that I find that I can barely drive the high power GT or LMP cars without it Sad I guess AIX isn't quite at that level though. I need more seat time!

I will likely be on either tonight or this weekend so I'll add some of you guys. Thanks for the replies! Let's go racing!

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Post  Smus Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:56 pm

Adjustments were made using the percentage grip reduction setting. Slicks were given to the last 3rd in AI, middle 3rd was standard while the upper 3rd was penalized...AIX was similar, however using slicks the only benefit was a 10 PI bump if they hose to use it.

Parity was easy using power:weight. There was at most a 40 PI difference between my '12 Charger SRT8 and some of the other field.

The issue really reared its head while using chassis of different eras. Originally older cars were used in AIX, however one fateful race at Silverstone with some SN95 mustangs put the AIX class into a horsepower and modern chassis war.
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Post  Avanti 63r1025 Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Hey Dillon, welcome to the Forza-4 Road Racing forums. I'm curious how you found this site, did you follow our links from the thread on forzamotorsport.net?

I'll answer some questions in a rundown.
  • Friday nights were selected because initially that was when we could get the maximum number of competitors to race.
  • Friday nights of late are creating problems. We believe this is when XBox Live is most heavily used and some of our competitors in the current [Rolex] series are having connection problems. The date could be changed depending upon when a majority of people are available.
  • An AI season 2 could be whipped up with minimal preparation time as I still have everything in place; minimal changes could be easily made.
  • AI and AIX were large enough at the start that we needed two rooms and the classes were raced concurrently so a racer had to select one class in which to compete.
  • I feel AI and AIX don't necessitate TCS as the race weight of these cars limit the power to controllable levels. In tech'ing a car, I very much so prefer less weight and less power to more weight and more power.
  • It has been mentioned above, we have members of this board coming up with new series. Any of these series may have simultaneous schedules, racing on an alternate day or an alternate week.
  • TuxTshirt assembled the Rolex series we're involved in currently, if you have an S197 Mustang and want to race with us or join some practice sessions, I don't think he'd have a problem with you joining. StalkerStang50 races a Mustang in the Rolex series, if he's online when Tux isn't, he could work with you on the Mustang's build.
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Post  dillonp87 Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:12 pm

Actually, I found this forum by googling "Forza American Iron" Laughing Admittedly I'm not a huge part of the Forza community and I really have only played with the NASA RM folks.

Less weight and less power is how I always built cars until I started testing AI cars. Even if p/w remains the same, the higher power cars seem to have an advantage. (Hence the horsepower wars that Smus mentioned, I'm guessing.) I hear from real life AI racers that's true in real life as well...more power and big brakes seems to be the way to go.

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Post  StalkerStang Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:37 pm

Its common knowledge on here that I'm not a fan of my 05 Mustang, but I have no problems showing you what I have learned with it. You can add me online if you want, and we can drive a bit. The 05 is a handfull, but it does have really good acceleration.
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