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water power!!

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water power!!

Post  ceet34 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:42 am

so this guy can figure it out but the best engineers from the biggest automotive companies can't? something screwy goin' on...
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Re: water power!!

Post  Smus on Tue May 08, 2012 7:47 am

Con man? Never heard of this deal here...sounds interesting but i dint see how it could work. The amount of electricity to split water i thought was pretty high.

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Re: water power!!

Post  ceet34 on Tue May 08, 2012 2:12 pm

I did some research there are actually a lot of these cases and all of the inventors are now dead.
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Re: water power!!

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Tue May 08, 2012 3:19 pm

ceet34 wrote:I did some research there are actually a lot of these cases and all of the inventors are now dead.
Cars powered by water is a real deal. There was also carburetor technology which would allow a car to get 100 miles per gallon. Guess where those folks went?

'Big oil' companies want us to believe there is a finite supply. They want us to believe that all there is, is only what they give to us. This means we must pay the price they dictate. Anyone involved in research of other fuel sources will get shunted or worse.

I'm a believer in the notion of abiotic oil, that it's a naturally occurring process and that Earth can't run out of crude oil. For the most part first-world nations are driven by greed and immoral people. Greed on Wall Street, greed in political power, greed in profits, greed-greed-greed. The notion of sharing is a foreign one to these people because they failed in Kindergarten. This greed is what set off the occupy movement.

Former MN governor Jesse Ventura says, "Follow the money." If someone stands to profit, be it a company an individual or otherwise, you'd better believe they're going to do what they can to monopolize their field and make sure $ flows only to them.

PS) Embargo spelled backwards is O Grab Me.
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Re: water power!!

Post  ceet34 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:05 pm

Attention class avanti knows what's up!! Pay attention study
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Re: water power!!

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:27 pm

Ha. Thanks Ceet.

On a greed related note, I'll just leave this here:
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Re: water power!!

Post  TuxTshirt on Tue May 08, 2012 5:35 pm

No one said you or me couldn't be a CEO. That's what's this country was founded on. The sky is the limit if you know how to get there. That's capitalism. Having said that, I'm sure there are many people that have reached that status by being greedy and cutthroat. This, I don't agree with. See, there's a line I wouldn't cross regardless of pay. I think the super rich should pay it forward. But it should be an option. When you take away someone's ability to be charitable, it's no longer charity, it's socialism.

I'd like to see the ratio of the United States' "1" to other countries' "average worker". The fact is, greed has been around since the beginning of time. It's not isolated to the U.S. Singling out the U.S., as that chart clearly does, paints a skewed picture. It's everywhere. Greed is known as one of the 7 deadly sins, so is sloth. How many of those "average workers" are overpaid? How many of the "Occupy______" people could have had jobs? I'm sure there was a thread of morality there, but don't discount those that were there that think they're entitled to something. Entitlement is a form of greed.

"The truth will set you free" gets thrown around alot. It's well known, but I wonder how many know where it came from. It came from the Bible, John 8:32. It gets taken out of context often. It's not referring to billionaire CEO's. The One who said it knows of the evil in this world. Including greed and immorality. Believers know that all guilty parties will be judged and justice will be served. If money is your god, it's a terrible shame for you. That's the truth.

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Re: water power!!

Post  Smus on Tue May 08, 2012 8:10 pm

I truly dislike the term greed...I think the issue is people confuse greed with self interest.

I'd also argue the graph is slightly misleading. It is difficult to disagree with the information, but its also difficult to believe the info due to the lack of sources.


Based on that chart, that means...

Toyota's Chairman Mr. Fuijo Cho's pay of ~$1.65 million equates to the average Japanese Toyota employee getting paid $110,000...not likely...and he's not even getting paid near the top.

Mr. Ferdinand Piech gets paid ~$22.8 million... $1.9 million for Hans in Wolfsburg? Don't think so...

Mr. Bob Diamond Jr., head of Barclays, made about $2.2 million...so the average pay is $100,000.

Mr. Dan Akerson, CEO of GM, made $7.7 million. Bubba in Bowling Green building the Corvette makes around $16k? Seems a touch low, but not entirely out of order.

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Re: water power!!

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Tue May 08, 2012 9:23 pm

Tux, definitely. I hope to be a CEO one day and I shared one of my business models with you in the fm.net forums. Maybe I should rewind a little? The found 475:1 factor isn't entirely where my issue lies. As you point out, isn't the idea to reach for the stars? Capitalism's goal should be to have as many people at the upper levels as possible.

My problem is with the jackwagons who want to own everything. Those who must get to the top through any means necessary, including killing the competition both literally and figuratively. With competition out of the way and an established powerhouse, there’s no chance of anyone else coming up in that field. Also, upon reaching their desired level they act in their own self interest and don’t do anything to boost people as a whole.

One positive example would be the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation helping education. I admit to not being a saint. I have had sex without being married so I must be goin' to live with Seth in Hell, though mark my words now; I like helping people. I'm one of those strange people who finds pleasure in seeing others happy. If I had the means necessary I'd help my family and friends first (yes, that includes my digital friends), then I'd help complete strangers. Why would I do such a thing? I believe the higher we elevate the bottom, the better everyone's life becomes. It's too bad that notion is lost in other people today.

  • I went on an errand for my dad and he lent me his car. Approaching the San Mateo bridge I cut off a driver to get into an open toll lane. I felt bad for cutting them off and paid their toll. When I got home I told my dad about the incident. He just laughed and said, “I bet you really confused that driver.”
  • I went to the Marin headlands north of the Golden Gate bridge to take some pictures. The bridge toll is $6 for autos and I had a $20 in my wallet. I told the toll taker to give me back $2 and pay for the next two cars after me. I watched in my rear view as the toll taker waved through the next two cars. I bet that's a pretty rare event these days.
I was listening to a radio program where a guest posed this question, “What are you supposed to do with profits?” Callers kept saying, “Profits go to pay salaries.” The guest said those were incorrect answers and had to repeat, “Profits are any funds remaining after bills, salaries, and other expenditures have been paid. Salaries are covered before profits, where are profits supposed to go?” He finally gave his answer; profits are supposed to go toward business expansion. I wonder how many profits are going into bonuses (also covered under salaries) or into personal pockets through any other method?

Very true Smus, the graph is leaving out a lot of background information and it is possible to lie with statistics. The fact we don’t know the survey information is a big downer. Also in statistics, there could be outliers swaying the results to make the U.S. look larger than really is, and Japan smaller than really is.
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Re: water power!!

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Tue May 08, 2012 11:29 pm

I'm all for spirited conversation.
Shit, sometimes I'm a downright heartless asshole (just ask my ex), my racing series has been called a joke, and that's all fine by me. We're human and we're learning along this road called life. I like hearing the opinions of others. If you're comfortable, let it fly in the open cheers
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Re: water power!!

Post  TuxTshirt on Wed May 09, 2012 12:03 am

Avanti 63r1025 wrote:
I'm all for spirited conversation.
Shit, sometimes I'm a downright heartless asshole (just ask my ex), my racing series has been called a joke, and that's all fine by me. We're human and we're learning along this road called life. I like hearing the opinions of others. If you're comfortable, let it fly in the open cheers

Perhaps I should copy/paste the message I sent you.

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Re: water power!!

Post  Smus on Wed May 09, 2012 9:22 am

Exactly, profit is for business expansion. My dad is a CEO...technically...although the board consists of he and my mom as CFO for our farm...there are a lot of business owners who ran to C corp or S corp status to miss getting hit in the higher 2 tax brackets for personal income.

I love spirited discussions! I was a poli sci major so spirited discussions are a must.

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Re: water power!!

Post  Smus on Wed May 09, 2012 9:31 am

Also, profits are a little bit a bonus for doing a good job, as i believe most corporations are mom and pop operations so usually the CEO has all the risk. So theyre the ones that if the business goes "tits up", theyre the ones on the hook.

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Re: water power!!

Post  Remaggib on Wed May 09, 2012 7:23 pm

Avanti, I've done that toll thing a bunch, just because. What's real fun is stopping in blizzard conditions to change tires or to push a car out of a ditch. That's the stuff I live for, best of all I can afford time usually, so that's the best.

Being a business owner, I'd sure like to SEE profits, not just hear about them. Currently I'm operating in the red since startup, but that's largely because one company refuses to pay me for services rendered, and my mom, the biggest reason I started my business, decided she was stressed out so she up and left her position at her company, which if she would have stayed would have been lots and lots of dollars coming in working for her at her company. That's a run-on sentence but I'm too tired and in far too much pain to make sense.
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Re: water power!!

Post  TuxTshirt on Wed May 09, 2012 7:44 pm

What kind of business do you run Rem?

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Re: water power!!

Post  Smus on Thu May 10, 2012 7:50 am

Dude, if you have invoices, and another company is not paying you, there are ways of getting your money....slap a levy on tgem, if they owe you, you gotta pay. Otherwise, just send tgem abotger bill abd start putting on a late fee. My dad has had go do that with some customers that are late (were talking 9 months late) paying up. That may get them moving.

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Re: water power!!

Post  Remaggib on Thu May 10, 2012 6:21 pm

I have a custodial / maintenance business. It's a fairly small operation (I'm owner, operator, president, president of the 1 person fan club, and accountant). The problem with invoices and all that is that I've sent these papers in 3 times, and out of the two people I sent them in to, one got replaced and the other took voluntary leave due to downsizing. Fortunately it was under $200 for the total bill, and it cost me only gas and my personal time to do the work so I'm not out much. Oh well, lesson learned I guess. On the plus side of things, the trailer I had bought with my own money paid itself off hauling scrap from this company before I even started working on their projects, with a little bit extra so essentially the $200 or so they owe me I already got, they just don't know it. For all they know I just hauled the stuff down the road and tossed it in random dumpsters throughout the city.
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Re: water power!!

Post  Simcik on Fri May 11, 2012 4:53 pm

Not that the latter is not interesting, but back on topic. Water as fuel is legit - to an extent. Water contains pure oxygen and pure hydrogen that are naturally compressed, in fact, water has Tue highest concentration of hydrogen per volume. Period. The problem is getting it out. The most effective way is through electrolysis, but there are huge trade offs. Breaking the numerous hydrogen bonds requires a huge amount of energy.

Using water itself as a fuel is feasible, but not practicle, due to water's corossive nature. Same thing with burning the steam as fuel. Steam is still water, just in a different state...

I have built/used HHO devices before, they work. But they require lots of maintenance, lots of power to operate, and lots of space to make any useful amount.

Truth is, the internal energy of Hydrogen is so much lower than other fuels, that at this time, extracting it is not worth-while. Not to mention storing it, as it's extremely volatile.

Now, Propane? Natural gas? That is where we need to be looking.

Feel free to pick my brain. It's nice to actually use some of the engineering stuff they teach me...



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