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I completely agree

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I completely agree

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:17 pm

The Ten Biggest Dicks in Motor Racing History and we're not speaking about male endowment. There's a reason I highlighted numeral 6; he was an absolute jackass. Today's team drivers do compete against each other, though not to the point of endangering the equipment or lives. Ol' Enzo's orders led to loss of life. He wanted team drivers to compete against each other and win at all costs. Carroll Shelby was racing for other manufacturers (Aston Martin and Maserati) at the time and lost friends due to Enzo Ferrari's orders. This pissed-off Carroll.

Enzo pissed-off Ford by souring the sale of his company to Ford late in the talks. Shelby teaming up with Ford and fighting Ferrari is what gave the racing world the Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe and the Ford GT-40.

Check this out, Ferrari petitioned the F.I.A. for an allowance to change the body on one of his cars. The F.I.A. agreed as long as the chassis remained the same. Shelby's roadster Cobra wasn't aerodynamic enough for speeds to beat offerings from Ferrari. Carroll used the same ruling Ferrari brought into existence, built the Daytona Coupe on top of a roadster's chassis, and beat Ferrari at his own game … take that you enormous dick!

This is a good read about the Cobra Daytona: http://jalopnik.com/281644/shelby-cobra-daytona-coupe Oh, and if you catch "America's Greatest Race Car" on Speed Channel, it covers more about the Cobra Daytona Coupe.
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Re: I completely agree

Post  TuxTshirt on Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:50 pm

Yeah, I saw that on Speed. I absolutely love that Daytona Coupe. Feakin' awesome!

Enzo just looks like a dick. I will give him this, his company makes some pretty sweet cars. But there's no excuse to be a slimy user.

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Re: I completely agree

Post  Smus on Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:51 pm

Interesting.

I'll have to say, although the death total for drivers of Ferrari cars is extremely high, I would argue that Chapman's blatant disregard for driver safety is far more disturbing than the idea that professional drivers pushed too hard and ended up paying the ultimate price. I'm not saying that Enzo was a great guy, based on what I've read he knew how to push buttons of everyone. That being said, it was entirely up to the drivers to know the limits of themselves and their cars. I know that drivers want to succeed, to be lauded as a victor, and to win the approval of "il Commendatore", but blame can't be laid entirely on Ferrari.


Not to mention, the GT40 and Shelby don't exactly have snow white hands either. Ken Miles may be the only one, but he did pass due to questionable aero and untested pieces.


Shelby did have a hand in developing the Viper, but he wanted a V8 instead of the V10 Bob Lutz wanted...now don't get me wrong, I like the Viper. It's the closest thing to the old AC Cobra that you can buy to this day. However, if you say Shelby, people will nod and say "yeah, those are cool cars, he was a great designer, and he really stuck it to Ferrari". But you say Ferrari, and people's eyes glaze over...Italy bleeds for the prancing horse.

Not to mention this is what Shelby built in the early 90's.




This is what Ferrari built in the early 90's




I'm a Tifoso...so my opinion should be taken with a healthy grain of salt.

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Re: I completely agree

Post  sbclowrider on Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:30 pm

Yeah I saw that on speed it was awesome! It also talked about enzo cheated too win the championship by getting the race canceled. The Daytona the Mecum has didnt sell. Top offer was 6 million I think.
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Re: I completely agree

Post  Simcik on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:16 pm

Smus wrote:...Not to mention this is what Shelby built in the early 90's.



This is my favorite 90's Shelby. I always wanted one of these, actually. Man, they are hard to find!!!



Did you all know that the DAKOTA was the inspiration for the front suspension used on the VIPER!?! No joke! The basic design pricipal and geometry came from the freakin' Dodge Dakota. How 'bout that? I think the prototype actually had Dakota parts on it, but I am not sure on that one. Will have to peruse Allpar again to make sure...
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Re: I completely agree

Post  Avanti 63r1025 on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:48 pm

Smus wrote:… Not to mention, the GT40 and Shelby don't exactly have snow white hands either. …
Ha. Too true. It's 2012, I seriously doubt ANY auto manufacturer has been a saint, even small market producers.

Dodge Daytona IROC vs. Ferrari F40: One could argue Carroll Shelby doesn't build any car of his own design, he's more of a tuner so Ferrari pretty much beat him there. The closest Shelby came was with Series 1, though even that car borrowed an engine (Oldsmobile Aurora), transmission and brakes (Corvette).

Ferrari does great things for the motorsport world. However, look on the flip side of that coin and you'll see examples of Ferrari being, shall we say "too proud and selfish." Some of these examples are recent, as in Nürburgring lap times.

I forgive any bias you have.
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Re: I completely agree

Post  Smus on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:07 pm

Youre right about the ring times, although i think we could agree that Porsche has been king whiner when it comes to ring times, especially where that nissan gtr is concerned.

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Re: I completely agree

Post  Simcik on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:21 pm

Smus wrote:Youre right about the ring times, although i think we could agree that Porsche has been king whiner when it comes to ring times, especially where that nissan gtr is concerned.

They complained about the Viper, too. (Though others did as well.) After Mopar lost the title, they sent their driver back and spent more time adjusting and tuning the suspension. Some of the manufacturers got pissy, but the truth is that the car comes stock with fully adjustable suspension parts, so they had no reason. Not a big Porsche fan, myself. I always thought they were overrated - and their driver's are usually dicks, and by that I mean, they don't have one (that's why they bought the car).

I think that the Ferrari, Chapman, Shelby thing is all relative. You've got to realize that from their respective points of view, priorities are different. Are we really having this discussion today if Ferrari doesn't push his guys to the limit? And Chapman is right on (from an engineering standpoint, at least) in his approach. He is building a racecar,and if it doesn't win, it isn't a very good one. Like Smus said, the drivers have to take some responsibility too. If they really feel the car is so much faster (Further reading of Chapman story), slow down a tad. This lowers stress on the wing, and means it will not break. Personally, pushing the boundaries doesn't make you a dick in my book. Ignoring the consequences of your actions, and/or whining about them, does.

Where was the old NASCAR leader at in all this? He's done some very dick-like things in his days. And what about the JJ/Knaus combo? Put them right behind Kyle.
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Re: I completely agree

Post  Smus on Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:52 am

Its easier to talk ill of the dead...theyre not around to defend themselves...and id argue the average age of your standard Jalopnik reader is 30 or less...they never had an opportunity to see the driving of the 50s and 60s.

I agree with your sentiment about pushing boundries and testing limits. It seems that the desire to keep drivers safe, which is paramount, has killed innovations specially in formula 1. It's no longer about cutting edge design and engineering instead it's all about bending the rules to maximize the car.

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Re: I completely agree

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